Cavalry cap badges - spotting the fakes

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Gary B

...well that's thinned my collection out a bit!

Gary B

Gary

I suggest you post pics in an album and we can review them for you. A couple more opinions might help.

Alan

[Luke H]

My intention isn’t to criticise Alan, the aim of the thread is certainly a noble one and well received by members.

I’d be happy to work with you offline on this project where we can format and QA before posting.

Alternatively if the parameters are to highlight (some) more common repros then as that has been outlined now I’ll but out.

[Alan O]

That was my intention to show a genuine badge and also some copies but there are too many fakes to be able to be cover every one. Likewise for the longer lived cavalry regiments there were several makers so several dies and construction types exist. It's a guide which members can use as a starter and then search through the forum for the more comprehensive threads on each badge.

[Gary B]

Alan, to be honest I'm quite happy to crack-on and back-fill with genuine items whenever I pick up snippets from yourself, Luke and other uber-knowledgeable Forum members.
I've also closed my e-bay account totally now and am just buying from Forum members and I have to say, it's the best thing I've ever done - the reassurance of buying from good guys takes away all of the risk!
G

[Alan O]

The 10th Hussars cap badge remained the same design up to amalgamation.

Victorian era were on 3 lugs (Pic1-2) and this was followed by a slidered version. (Pic3-4) Both of these have a brasing hole. Although not amrked I beleive them to be made by Firmin due to style of feathers.

Later issued badges had slightly different designs of feathers and did not have a brasing hole. There was 2 a/a types: each with slightly different design and size of feathers.

The badge at Pic 5-6 appears to be solid backed and I would say that the slider was 1950's by small JR Gaunt London mark. However the solid back is more commonly seen in 1970s badges marked JR Gaunt Bham so an oddity

The successor regiment was the Royal Hussars who wore an a/a badge. However metal badges were bought and worn on berets with RHQ approval. (Pic 7-8) Aagain a soldi back construction seen in post 70's badges.

There are multiple copies running from Gaunt Bham badges from the 70's, MM catalogue with dumpy feathers and several other dies. (9-14) The badge at 13-14 has the same elongated letters found on bi metal and 3 DG fakes. Whilst their was a 1916 economy badge, it was one-f-a-king in that it was 2 piece with a tagged scroll.

[Gary B]

Sorry Alan - with regards to the BAYS badge - are we saying anything WITHOUT the strengthening wire/bar is a fake?
G

[Gary B]

Sorry Alan (I'm new at this) - your comments on the 3rd Dragoon Guards... what is an "overlaid scroll"?

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Gary B

Sorry Alan - with regards to the BAYS badge - are we saying anything WITHOUT the strengthening wire/bar is a fake?
G

Genuine KC badges without strengthening bars do very much exist. Another myth is that there must be voids on the neck but genuine ones were not voided.

[Gary B]

Luke, you are a star - thanks very much!

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Gary B

Sorry Alan - with regards to the BAYS badge - are we saying anything WITHOUT the strengthening wire/bar is a fake?
G

No but it is the fine of the better made ones.

The Gaunt London QC badges did not have the voiding so did not have the brass strip. However there is a common QC fake on lugs that is voided!

I summise that in 1903 the sliders but the voiding caused an inherent weakness so a brass strip was added to the S/P. However later other makers (probably not Gaunt & Firmin I suspect) avoided the need for this by not having the voids. Those badges are less well made and often have badly put on sliders typical of a war-time sub-contractor rather than an established badge producer.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by Gary B

Sorry Alan (I'm new at this) - your comments on the 3rd Dragoon Guards... what is an "overlaid scroll"?

If you look at the 10 Hussars badges, the scrolls on my originals are tagged on as separate pieces so the back of the scroll is visible. Later (and very common post 1960s and onwards) the brass scrolls were braised over the top of an existing part of the badge so the back of the brass scroll cannot be seen because there is a w/m back to it. The Royal Hussars badge is made like that.

[Luke H]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Not commonly faked but fakes do exist that are easy to spot due to poor reverse details and voiding.
QVC fake is (Pic 1-2) compared the genuine badge in Pic 3-4.

There was a subsequent KC version on a slider. (Pic 5-6) The originals had a brass wire to strengthen the neck. I do not know if there was a 1902-3 lugged KC version but have not seen one I would buy.

KC fakes lack the wire, have poor voiding and can have lugs.

QVC fake is (Pic 1-2)

There was an Edwardian looped KC version, pics below.

[Alan O]

That's a very rare badge indeed. Very nice age-blacked lugs too. There Logically there should have been one made for 2 years. However in light of the 1903 9th lances with the Imperial Crown held at the IWM there are clearly no had an fast rules.

It would be interesting to see if anyone has a 1903 long slidered version of the Bays badge in their collection.

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by Alan O

It would be interesting to see if anyone has a 1903 long slidered version of the Bays badge in their collection.

....this is held at the NAM

[Alan O]

Griff

Many thanks. So that completes the set! Is there a photo of the back?

Alan