Grenadier Guards Victorian belt - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

High Wood · #1 08-01-18, 03:01 PM

Purchased yesterday at a local flea market. Not in the best of condition but it appears to be a Victorian period Grenadier Guards white leather belt with markings to the inside.

High Wood · #2 08-01-18, 03:03 PM

The date of issue and service number are in black and either a name or disposal mark in red.

manchesters · #3 08-01-18, 04:12 PM

Looks more like Royal Artillery to me?

regards

High Wood · #4 08-01-18, 04:24 PM

That might explain why I cannot find a similar belt on the internet.

Why is the Grenadier Guards cap badge identical to a Royal Artillery belt buckle badge, surely the Royal Artillery had their own device for their belt buckles?

grenadierguardsman · #5 08-01-18, 08:11 PM

That Grenade pattern is the one the National Army Museum has as a Grenadier Guards cap badge ( grenade ), which it isn't IMHO.
Would you keep me posted if you do find out what Regiment/Corps it belongs to please.
Andy

grenadierguardsman · #6 08-01-18, 08:13 PM

Could i see the whole belt and number please ?
Andy

fougasse1940 · #7 08-01-18, 08:44 PM

can't find this buckle in either of Campbell's Dress of the Royal Artillery publications so I doubt it is RA. The RA did wear the grenade on the FSH and to this very day on the officer's full dress cross belt tip.

Rgds, Thomas

kingsley · #8 09-01-18, 04:43 AM

I am reasonably sure that the RA and colonial arty (like the NSW Vol Arty) wore this 55mm badge and buckle in both WM and brass. It is featured in Grebert's book on Australian prefed badges. My understanding is that the GG grenade was smaller, but I know nothing about GG insignia.

grenadierguardsman · #9 09-01-18, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsley

I am reasonably sure that the RA and colonial arty (like the NSW Vol Arty) wore this 55mm badge and buckle in both WM and brass. It is featured in Grebert's book on Australian prefed badges. My understanding is that the GG grenade was smaller, but I know nothing about GG insignia.

Yes Kingsley you are correct about the Grenadier Guards cap badge ( grenade ) being smaller. However the Grenadier Guards cloak chains during the Crimea period, were of this size. But in Gilt, they did change to the smaller size ( headdress type ) cloak chains at some point in time. Thanks for this information, i didn't realise the Australian Artillery used this large type grenade. Just need to find out who used it in gilding metal.
Regards
Andy

kingsley · #10 10-01-18, 04:17 AM

A couple of Australian colonies, especially NSW and Victoria, had permanent artillery units before 1900 and wore gilt insignia. They obviously bought standard RA badges öff the shelf and had a few distinctive ones as well.
Similar for engineers.

kingsley · #11 10-01-18, 04:29 AM

Andy, I found another unidentified artillery badge on which I would like your opinion, this one with a WM plate behind.
I also have a gilt cloak chain badge somewhere, very similar to the 55mm
cap/buckle badge and have always thought (or hoped) it was artillery not GG.
Did the RA ever wear this badge on a cloak chain or only the GG?

Lancer 17 · #12 10-01-18, 04:52 AM

G'day guys

And just for good measure the Australian, Victorian Railways Infantry (1900 to 1930 period, Cossum 8) had a white metal or brass Grenade 42mm high as its hat badge and they had a curved shoulder title "RAILWAYS" as well, the collar badge was also a small grenade 31 mm high.

So there you are "Go figure" !

Also NSW Artillery used a plain brass grenade 55 mm high and a collar 30mm high.

I hope that this helps.

Regards

Phil.

High Wood · #13 10-01-18, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grenadierguardsman

Could i see the whole belt and number please ?
Andy

More photographs are on their way. The complete issue marking states 1.8.1873.

Bill · #14 10-01-18, 10:52 AM

Great thread, really informative.
This 55 mm grenade could also be the Royal Artillery puggaree badge shown in the 1900 Dress Regulations, Plate 51.
Bill

grenadierguardsman · #15 10-01-18, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsley

Andy, I found another unidentified artillery badge on which I would like your opinion, this one with a WM plate behind.
I also have a gilt cloak chain badge somewhere, very similar to the 55mm
cap/buckle badge and have always thought (or hoped) it was artillery not GG.
Did the RA ever wear this badge on a cloak chain or only the GG?

Ive no idea on that one Kinglsey, it looks nice but different to the one on the belt buckle.
Andy