British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Recent Books by Forum Members

   

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > British Military Insignia > Anodised Aluminium Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books  SEARCH
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #16  
Old 25-06-15, 08:48 AM
leigh kitchen's Avatar
leigh kitchen leigh kitchen is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 9,034
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan O View Post
The Fusiliers Brigade embraced thier badge rather more than others which is reflected that post 1968 the RRF retained the same badge rather than revrting to a previous one like most of the Scots or a new design for regts amalgamated after 1958 such as the Kings................
Unamalgamated regiments such as some Scottish ones resumed wearing regimental badges, the Kings & others were amalgamations that required new regimental designs, RRF couldn't revert to a regimental badge as it was a new regiment formed from all of the regiments of the Fusilier Brigade which were already represented in the design of the Brigades badges & buttons. The new regiments regimental design was in effect already designed & being worn.
But then I'm sure you know that & have typo'd & I'm being pedantic.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 25-06-15, 01:35 PM
chris cunniffe's Avatar
chris cunniffe chris cunniffe is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 63
Default anodised Lancs Fus

Hi well folks I am quite happy having read all your comments that this badge is the real thing and will be taking its place in my collection so once again thank you very much chris
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 29-06-15, 10:23 AM
William's Avatar
William William is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 587
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by chris cunniffe View Post
Hi could I please ask any member who knows any thing about A/A Lancashire Fusiliers badge please give me their thoughts many thanks chris
Yours is in excellent, virtually new condition. Although mine is not in such good nick, it looks the same as yours.

Cheers

William
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Lancs Fus.jpg (105.5 KB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg Lancs Fus, Reverse.jpg (89.6 KB, 45 views)
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 21-07-15, 08:56 PM
mojob123 mojob123 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 328
Default Lancashire Fusiliers a/a shoulder titles

I hope this is not going off topic. I picked these up at the weekend. There were about a dozen loose in a pot and after picking 2 out, the old chap selling them kindly pointed out that they came in facing pairs. I'd forgotten my glasses and would never have noticed, but I did have my loupe, and with the help of that, I did indeed pick out a facing pair - not easy to see from the photos, because they are tiny (about 1.7 cm across). Also 2 part construction. I'm hoping original and presumably contemporaneous with the cap badge in the op?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_8010.jpg (58.8 KB, 31 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_8009.jpg (93.1 KB, 42 views)
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 20-08-15, 09:11 AM
didithevan didithevan is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 24
Default

I seem to recall chatting to a chap on line (whilst trying to get him to sell me his Somerset LI AA badge) who told me that he had been in the QM of the Lancs Fus depot who had received the AA badges. I'm not sure whether they got issued, but he told me that loads were locally disposed of and shortly after could be found on sale in Bury market for pennies!
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 20-08-15, 09:19 AM
49lassiepen 49lassiepen is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: South Wales
Posts: 2,150
Default

As previous post paid less than a£1.00 for mine There was a few in the bag I purchased and gave away the others I think the last 1 sold was around £400.00

David
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 20-08-15, 12:29 PM
Mike H's Avatar
Mike H Mike H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,695
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 49lassiepen View Post
As previous post paid less than a£1.00 for mine There was a few in the bag I purchased and gave away the others I think the last 1 sold was around £400.00

David
Add a bit more David,last 4 ive seen went for £500+
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 20-08-15, 01:28 PM
badjez's Avatar
badjez badjez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hervey Bay QLD Australia
Posts: 2,438
Default AA Lancs Fus

A little background info:

16.09.58. At 113th Meeting of War Office Dress Committee it was decided not to approve an application for 5 Bn, Lancashire Fusiliers (TA) to adopt the Fusilier Bde cap badge.
It was policy that when new regiments had been formed by amalgamation, the TA Regiments were to retain their present identities. This was especially so in this case as the Fusilier Bde had no territorial allegiance unlike the 5 Bn.

12.01.61. At the 134th Meeting of the WODC the proposal was discussed again, without decision.

28.04.61. At the 137th Meeting of the WODC, the Committee decided to approve the undermentioned D&E, as worn by the Regular Army, for wear by 5 Bn, Lancs. Fus (TA):
All ranks- Fusilier Brigade pattern cap badge, Collar Badges and buttons.
Officers Mess Dress.
Officers No1 Dress Forage Cap- Fusilier Brigade pattern in gold embroidery and silver plate.
Blue beret worn by OR in all forms of Dress, except in the case of WOI & WOII who will wear them only whilst on training. A fibre stiffener to be worn with the beret at regimental expense.

Post 1967 amalgamations:

22.11.67. At the 183rd Meeting of the ADC it was decided to approve the following design of D&E for 4 (T) Bn, East Lancs Regt:
(a) HQ, A & C Coy (4 East Lancs Regt): Badge, Cap E. Lancs Regt AA (CB 8455-99-973-9412).
(b) B Coy (The Lancashire Fusiliers): Badge, Cap Fusilier Bde AA (CB 8081).
(c) D Coy (The Bolton Artillery): As for HQ above.

Stephen.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 20-08-15, 07:22 PM
Mike H's Avatar
Mike H Mike H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,695
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by badjez View Post
Post 1967 amalgamations:

22.11.67. At the 183rd Meeting of the ADC it was decided to approve the following design of D&E for 4 (T) Bn, East Lancs Regt:
(a) HQ, A & C Coy (4 East Lancs Regt): Badge, Cap E. Lancs Regt AA (CB 8455-99-973-9412).

(c) D Coy (The Bolton Artillery): As for HQ above.

Stephen.
Does the above CB number refer to the Lancastrian Brigade badge or the badge that got as far as the sketch stage ?
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 21-08-15, 04:18 AM
hagwalther's Avatar
hagwalther hagwalther is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 2,939
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike H View Post
Does the above CB number refer to the Lancastrian Brigade badge or the badge that got as far as the sketch stage ?
Hi Mike,

The 'CB No.' shown is actually an NSN but was sometimes recorded starting with the initials 'CB'. It relates to the East Lancashire Regiment. See page 522 of book and also pages 476-477 where a Master Pattern Card is described for the same.

CB Nos. were just 4 numbers long used before NSN's were adopted. See Appendix 2 for lots of CB Nos. for the early A/A cap badges and also the CB Nos. for the WM/GM pieces that they replaced.

Sketches had their own numbering system usually a '0' followed by a '.' followed by a 4 digit numeric code. They are not interchangeable with CB No.s

e.g.

CB No. 2830 was the WM item for the Lovat Scouts but sketch 0.2830 related to the Green Howards A/A item.

See pages 524 and 462.

Regards

Chris
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 21-08-15, 06:45 AM
badjez's Avatar
badjez badjez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hervey Bay QLD Australia
Posts: 2,438
Default AA LF

Mike,

My reading of these Minutes is that this was an approval of a design, and not the approval of a Sketch or actual prototype.

I have found no other references to the LF ano badge in the Minutes so far, nor have I currently got access to a complete list of NSN numbers for this period.

Stephen.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 21-08-15, 11:19 AM
Mike H's Avatar
Mike H Mike H is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,695
Default

Thanks Stephen,ive seen the proposed designs that someone posted on here.
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 21-08-15, 12:41 PM
didithevan didithevan is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 24
Default Why do badges have a CB prefix - the answer...

Gents,
The CB letters referred to the UK internal depot catalogue system and was a prefix to the NSN. For instance clothing tended to sit under the KA-KC class, Tools under F1-F3 and badges CA-CB etc. They could be an alphanumeric mix. To break a code down is as follows:
Initial letters - internal UK depot catalogue letters (hence all badge will be CB or CA)
NSN
First four numbers - the same thing but as a NATO standard, so a spanner for instance, might have its first four numbers as 5140
Next two numbers - refer to the country of maufacture. UK is 99, USA is 00 etc
Next three numbers - focus in on the classicifaction, with a spanner for instance, 914 might be a open spanner, 915 a ring spanner
Last four - the unique item identifier
Put together you get a unique code that also describes the item, a bit like HAZMAT codes!
This is why you will see most badges tend to have similar if not identical numbers up to the last four as they are all in the same general class
And that is how you get a UK NSN such as CB 8455-99-973-9412, a Lancs Fus might well have been therefore CB 8455-99-973-8081 based on Stephen’s post
Hope that clears it up!!
Stu
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 21-08-15, 12:55 PM
didithevan didithevan is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 24
Default Just to add further complexity!!

Just to make the whole issue of authorised and unauthorised, repro etc more murky. As you will all be aware, the Army Dress Committee only approves the pattern or design. therefater the matter of contracting becomes very vague. In the UK it might have been easy to get the accepted maunfacturers to produce to the standard - hence the comonly seen pattern cards. these were generally the models sent in for comparison to the stated standard that were then accepted befpre a contract was placed. Easy!

Now it gets difficult. If you happened to be in the Lancashire bogtotters posted in deepest Burma, supplies were going to be difficult to get so armed with a copy of the accepted standard, and concerned only with the sizes and colour uniformity, the QM of the bogtrotters could happily go down to the local bazaar and order badges and buttons. As long as they met the specification, they would be acceptable and brought into local service. No part number, no proof card, nothing except the eye of the QM and most likely the lovely lunch and hospitality he received to seal the deal.

Such badges were technically just as authorised and real as the factory produced ones by the accepted companies.

Sort of blows a hole in the real, fake and repro argument doesn't it. Its a real authorised badge if it meets the spec and has been accepted into service locally.

That incidentally is still the way things are done now, from my own experience of having served there 3 years ago, it is not inconceivable that for instance the Fusiliers in Afghan could have had a job lot of badges made locally in Bastion if resupply became problematic. As long as they met the standards in terms of size and finish they would have been accepted into service by the QM on behalf of the CO - given that there were loggies in the camp, they might even have been locally bought onto account and therefore become actually official with a part number!
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 21-08-15, 10:12 PM
badjez's Avatar
badjez badjez is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Hervey Bay QLD Australia
Posts: 2,438
Default AA LF

Quite agree about locally produced badges. I've always included locally made badges in my collections, especially if named. These badges weren't always unauthorised at a higher level. There are a number of instances recorded by the Ministry of Supply when they didn't complete a 'demand' but allowed it to be filled by local purchase, even for units stationed in the UK i.e.

11.04.39. RE (Militia) a.k.a. Malta
13.04.39. & 13.06.39. RAVC
13.04.39. & 04.05.39. AEC
09.05.39. 5 Bn, King's Regt
11.09.39. KOMR, Worcs Yeo, MPSC & APTS

Info from SUPP4/152.

Stephen.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

mhs link

All times are GMT. The time now is 03:48 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.