Old Prison Officer photo's

[peter4447]

Hi HMP Badges
Knew I had it somewhere - I think it was the same Course.
Peter4447

[Bantam]

Hi All,
Here is a nice old pic of OTC Leyhill,Tortworth Court a beautiful building that was unfortunately badly damaged by a fire 1991.It is now restored and is functioning as an hotel.
Hwyl
Bantam

[HMPbadges]

Sorry Pete, I can only name my old Guhrka mate on there

[HMPbadges]

Anyway, back to post. here are a few more old screw photos

Now what I would like to know is when did Warders wear their numbers on the shoulders (pic 3) instead of their collar? It must have been VERY briefly? This is the only photo I have of that and I am told he was from Holloway, and what is it with the later staff in peaked caps and many medals (just after WWI obviously) wearing a very very small embroidered badge?

[HMPbadges]

I forgot to say Bantam, the second photo is just as the Shako's changed to the peaked cap and if you look at the bottom left of the pic there is still one still wearing the 1867 pattern Shako, he was obviously on A/L at the time of issue. There is also evidence of the origional Hospitlal Warders if you look closely.

[Bantam]

Hi HMPbadges,
I have evidence to confirm that the service changed to the new style uniform and replacing the Shako hat with the field cap style in 1910.It is noticeable that in a number of your photos the officers are wearing a bullion crown headdress badge.This would have been brought in at the beginning of WW1 circa 1914 to save on cost and producton.So I think it isvery probable that it was only 4 years that the number was worn on the shoulder.
I am unable yet to see evidence of hospital warders but I will keep looking the eyes "minces"(especially for you)are not what they were !!!!
Hwyl
bantam
Hwyl
Bantam

[Bantam]

Hi HMPbadges,
Just spotted the bottom row second photograph including the warder wearing the shako have a arm badge that we discussed before an identified it as an hospital warders badge.Hope I'm right ?
Hwyl
Bantam

[Bantam]

Originally Posted by HMPbadges

I'm very dubious about the very last one at Wakefield, it's meant to be senior works staff - who always wore the opened necked tunic before the early 50's general issue with tie for easy removal, but I think it's Police.

HMPbadges,
Totally agree with you this a photo of police officers and not prison staff.A number of officers can be seen clearly wearing stripes and their uniforms also differ to those worn by prison staff.For the uninitiated prison warders/officers never wore stripes as rank insignia.
Hwyl
Bantam

[HMPbadges]

Yes you are right Bantam about the head dress change of style date, I have something somewhere stating that it "probably" changed at this time, do you have any written evidence at all to define it?

Once again I will have to look through my records and photos etc - just give me time ha ha ha.

They seemed to like taking a group photo when any uniform or badge changed and this is what I have a few of, just good photos that are mixed uniform or badges at certain times.

Also, and on the subject of the bullion/cloth/ex Navy type crowns, photos and records I have show that Assistant Warders and the later Temporary Officers wore this to denote their rank, then all of a sudden everyone did! So we may have a little research job to do on this subject if you're up for it?

[Bantam]

Hi HMPbadges,
I have some entry's from a personal diary I have mentioned to you before where the officer writes about him receiving the new style of uniform.I will dig it out and scan and post it.
I am so disappointed at still not having a reply from The Galleries of Justice Museum in reference to my query regarding the unusual chief officers King George VI badge that I have also posted on this site. I believe that it is probably the best place to find what we need, if they would only answer their mail?Destro informed me that he had also encountered difficulties with the museum when trying to obtain information.
Look forward to your comments.
Bantam

[HMPbadges]

I'll try and send them an email from work, I did get a responce when I phoned prior to my visit and had a long chat, I have a mate at work that has been up there behind the scenes a few times, he's an expert on capital punishment though and helped them with that side of things. He says that they are simple curators and just hold items, as professional curators do. They know how to look after items and preserve them, but have little or very basic knowledge of what they actually have in their hands.

[HMPbadges]

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...1&d=1303426340

This is another photo showing the common embroidered kings crown used by several of the smaller government services, and maybe used second hand by some. In this case it is by the staff at Broadmoor Hospital.

[Bantam]

Originally Posted by HMPbadges

Yes you are right Bantam about the head dress change of style date, I have something somewhere stating that it "probably" changed at this time, do you have any written evidence at all to define it?

Once again I will have to look through my records and photos etc - just give me time ha ha ha.

They seemed to like taking a group photo when any uniform or badge changed and this is what I have a few of, just good photos that are mixed uniform or badges at certain times.

Also, and on the subject of the bullion/cloth/ex Navy type crowns, photos and records I have show that Assistant Warders and the later Temporary Officers wore this to denote their rank, then all of a sudden everyone did! So we may have a little research job to do on this subject if you're up for it?

Hi HMPbadges,
Here is the Principal Officers personal diary entry from Oct 1911 where he states that they received the new issue uniform,cap and overcoat.
Hwyl
Bantam

[HMPbadges]

That's a beautiful little bit of info Bantam, I really must look at my records and spend a night collating it all. I'd love to know when they started using the star with crown within on their collars? I have a scan of them somewhere, yet again lol