5th Border Regiment. - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

Luidgi350 · #1 23-03-23, 02:06 PM

Found this weekend for a modest price, despite the rarity of the badge, I let myself be tempted.
Could you tell me if this is a copy? And if it is a copy, could you explain to me why?
Thanks in advance.
luidgi

Luke H · #2 23-03-23, 04:01 PM

A fine example.

cbuehler · #3 23-03-23, 04:05 PM

I was about to declare it bad, but as Luke mentioned, it is not. The faults of the common fakes are not present. Good find!

CB

wardog · #4 23-03-23, 06:58 PM

Can I confirm the overhanging arch and lugs don't count against this example? It does look a good quality badge but these two point would have made me unsure. Regards, Paul.

Luke H · #5 23-03-23, 07:14 PM

Herewith the fake 5th Border Regiment with the ‘overhanging crown’ you refer to.

wardog · #6 23-03-23, 08:40 PM

Thanks Luke. So an overhanging arch on the right side as viewed is OK? Strange the duff badge has copied this fault, though on the left as viewed. Regards, Paul.

Alan O · #7 23-03-23, 08:45 PM

At the risk of being contentious I would prefer to buy a badge that is not from this type of die. They are both too common for my liking. The 4th Bn had the same life span as the 5th but a genuine 4th is so very much scarcer. If you look in my TF album you will see a 5th Bn badge that has a more normal crown.
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ictureid=43819

Luke H · #8 23-03-23, 08:58 PM

The overhang on the example in post #1 is due to how the badge has been cut out. Most examples from that die do not have such an overhang.

Moreover avoid badges from the die shown in post #5 as it is your bog standard Marsh catalogue fake example. It has many more differences to it v’s originals than the crown.

That’s not to say it’s the only dodgy 5th out there. Others are discussed elsewhere including cast copies cast from originals.

I’m of the belief the lower quality example shown by Alan is WW1 manufacture.

The 1916 tenders show that 3,000 4th Bn and 4,000 5th Bn badges were ordered in April of that year alone.

wardog · #9 23-03-23, 10:44 PM

Link to last time I asked about these badges https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ghlight=border
I now have a 5th similar to Alan's and the cast 5th is in 'the bag of shame.'
I still wonder about the 4th and 5th badges often looking mint. Regards, Paul.

Luke H · #10 23-03-23, 11:17 PM

Indeed. And here’s the last time…
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...ad.php?t=87777

All discussed before and getting a tad boring repeating.

John Gaylor in his first edition and Hugh King must’ve had these too mint, too common fakes too.

If mint = bad, then many collections need a clear out.

There are many examples from this die in non mint condition, notwithstanding earlier badges (which I believe this strike to be) were often made from better quality GS which resists tarnish.

So whilst the example in the OP looks very clean and untarnished the same cannot be said of the loops and gold braze which do not look fresh and show more patina and age.

Ultimately if you’re not happy with a badge you must make your own decisions.