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#31
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Cut-off titles
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Indeed, that is what I mean: these titles were originally 'Special Air Service' over 'Artists' and the little 'Artists' appendix was cut off when 21 changed their titles. After the change, 21 members were still issued with a set of the original titles and told to remove the 'Artists' bit before sewing them on their BD. Of course, later - when stocks of the original ran out - new 'Special Air Service' shoulder titles were produced without 'Artists'. The new shoulder titles were the same as the shoulder titles worn by 22 and 23 SAS. See picture of the full shoulder title and removed 'Artists' appendix as sold on Bosleys in July 2011. In this case the cutting was done very professionally, probably by a tailor. Copyright of the picture is with Bosleys. Cheers, Johan Last edited by johanwiegman; 27-09-13 at 05:50 PM. |
#32
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Hello Johan,
A most interesting thread, one of the joys of being a new member here, is that you keep finding new things to read. Tell me, I think from memory that the Artist's Rifles became the 21st SAS at the begining of 1947, what are your own thoughts on their beret badge, have you any examples from original founder members in your collection, I assume that the badge worn was merely the badge that the Artist's issued at that particular moment in time, so nothing whatsoever special about them? Regards again Frank |
#33
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21 beret badge
Hi Frank,
The Artists Rifles were raised in 1859 as a volunteer light infantry unit and fought during the Boer War and WW1. Before and during WW2 the Artists Rifles were an OCTU (Officer Cadet Training Unit), not an operational combat unit. They were disbanded in 1945. I am not sure what beret badge was used at the time. It is good to bear in mind that pre 1947 the Artists Rifles were not SAS or SF, despite what dealers on Ebay want you to believe. The Artists Rifles were resurrected in 1947 to form 21 SAS. The beret badge used then was the white metal Mars & Minerva badge with 'Artists' on the scroll. i believe that was the same beret badge as used by WW2 OCTU, but not fully sure. Cap badges with 'Artists Rifles' on the scroll go back to pre-WW2 times when the Regiment was much bigger. I have owned a silver M&M cap badge with Artists, probably used by officers. Cheers, Johan Last edited by johanwiegman; 02-02-14 at 09:19 PM. |
#34
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Artists in OCTU role
I believe that the Artists were associated with two infantry OCTUs. I have an image of a Company of 164 OCTU located in the Cors-Y-Gebol Hotel, Barmouth. Merionith. Not a trace of Artist's insignia visible on Directing Staff's headdress. 163 OCTU (Heysham and later, post War, in Maresfield, Sussex) was also associated with (or formed from) the Artist's Rifles - perhaps they had a closer affiliation with the Regiment? Mike
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#35
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Hello Johan,
Good to hear from you, no, I don't have the time of day for some dealers and ebay etc and I know exactly what you mean, I just wondered what your thoughts were, I think about them every time I walk past their old building on Dukes Road in the city, it has the famous badge over the door. The white metal badge worn, was actually sealed, I think, in 1938, just wondered what your thoughts were, have you encountered many differing examples over the years or were they all much the same? Regards Frank |
#36
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21 beret badge
Hi Frank,
I know of two 21 M&M cap badge variants: one rather nice and one a bit ugly, plus the silver variant, which was very nicely detailed. There was a thread on this beret badge some time ago. See pics. The one on the maroon beret is in my view not as nice as the other: look at the way Minerva's left eye and nose are shaped and compare to the other badge. Cheers, Johan Last edited by johanwiegman; 02-02-14 at 08:19 PM. |
#37
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163rd OCTU
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I happen to have a shoulder patch of 163rd OCTU, which does indeed show the Mars & Minerva heads, in white on Rifle Brigade Green. Major Tony Marsh, DSO, who served in 1st SAS from 1942-1945 and in 21 SAS 1950-1954, was in the Artists Rifles after leaving school and was commissioned in the DCLI in 1939. See picture of the OCTU patch. Cheers, Johan |
#38
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Hello Johan,
Many thanks again, something else that I must start to look at when I encounter them in the future, I have seen a number of nasty fakes in the past that were really quite obvious, but, have never looked at the badge in any detail. Kind regards Frank Quote:
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#39
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Hello Jahan,
This is a very interesting post, with regards to the photographs, it appears that someone has "butchered" three berets, was this someone you? Regards Frank Quote:
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#40
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Yes, I plead insanity, but it was a fairly new beret and I cut out patches (with leather rim) to display the beret badges... Cheers, Johan |
#41
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#42
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Hello Johan,
Glad to hear that they had no age to them! Regards Frank |
#43
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Excellent. I never realised that the 163 OCTU Flash came in facing pairs. Something new every day. Mike
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#44
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163 OCTU patch
Friends,
If somebody is interested, my 163 OCTU patch as illustrated is available for swap or sale as it is outside my collecting scope. Please PM me if interested. Cheers, Johan |
#45
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Hello Johan,
What do you think of this one? I've looked at about five or six examples that are original post 1934 badges and they all appeared to be much the same, quite a thin white metal strike of reasonable quality, so I bought this one! Regards Frank |
Tags |
21 sas, 21st sas (artists), special air service |
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