Unidentified Cap Badge

[Cheshire1878]

Hi,
Can anybody please help me identify the cap badge in the attached photograph of a WW1 soldier, possibly with links to the Bradford area.
The image isn't too clear but appears to me to be an eagle with spread wings.
I have tried various websites and books but without success.
Any help would be appriciated.

[Bill A]

Hello Cheshire1878, welcome to the Forum. Your account is active and open for posts.

[manchesters]

RNAS

[Jelly Terror]

Originally Posted by Cheshire1878

Hi,
Can anybody please help me identify the cap badge in the attached photograph of a WW1 soldier, possibly with links to the Bradford area.
The image isn't too clear but appears to me to be an eagle with spread wings.
I have tried various websites and books but without success.
Any help would be appriciated.

Hello Cheshire1878,

Nice photo; thanks for sharing. You can view the Royal Naval Air Service badge here:

http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/223/117/large_000000.jpg

This unit merged in 1918 with the Royal Flying Corps, to form the Royal Air Force, who celebrate their 100th anniversary this year, of course.

Welcome to the forum.

JT

[jeep]

Hello Cheshire1878,

Nice photo; thanks for sharing. You can view the Royal Naval Air Service badge here:
http://media.iwm.org.uk/ciim5/223/117/large_000000.jpg
This unit merged in 1918 with the Royal Flying Corps, to form the Royal Air Force, who celebrate their 100th anniversary this year, of course.

I'm a little confused. Is this badge not the first badge issued for Airmen in the newly formed RAF in 1918? See pic on this link, or was it also used by the RNAS prior to formation of the RAF?
http://www.britairforce.com/raf_capbadges_1.htm

[Cheshire1878]

Cheers to everybody who posted a reply. much appreciated.

When I first saw this photograph my initial thought was that the badge looked like a cloth one rather than brass and very similar to the RAF eagle shoulder flash.
I assumed that the Cap Badge had always been similar the one used today.

Thanks again guys. The next step is to try and identify the man in the photograph.

[RWest]

Originally Posted by Cheshire1878

Cheers to everybody who posted a reply. much appreciated.

When I first saw this photograph my initial thought was that the badge looked like a cloth one rather than brass and very similar to the RAF eagle shoulder flash.
I assumed that the Cap Badge had always been similar the one used today.

Thanks again guys. The next step is to try and identify the man in the photograph.

Hi Cheshire1878. The cloth badge above with the eagle is an RAF badge as issued from 1st April 1918. It was worn on a khaki cap. The RNAS cloth cap badge that preceded it was similar in shape but there is an anchor in place of the eagle. My father joined the RNAS in 1918 and was transferred over to the RAF on 1st April. I have dated pictures of him with both cap badges, firstly in his No1 blue naval uniform with the RNAS cap and badge, then in khaki with the RAF badge. Hope this helps.?

[manchesters]

Originally Posted by RWest

Hi Cheshire1878. The cloth badge above with the eagle is an RAF badge as issued from 1st April 1918. It was worn on a khaki cap. The RNAS cloth cap badge that preceded it was similar in shape but there is an anchor in place of the eagle. My father joined the RNAS in 1918 and was transferred over to the RAF on 1st April. I have dated pictures of him with both cap badges, firstly in his No1 blue naval uniform with the RNAS cap and badge, then in khaki with the RAF badge. Hope this helps.?

Hello,

I am not doubting what badge your father wore, BUT, the badge you describe with an Anchor is Royal Navy and NOT the RNAS.

regards

[RWest]

Originally Posted by Cheshire1878

Cheers to everybody who posted a reply. much appreciated.

When I first saw this photograph my initial thought was that the badge looked like a cloth one rather than brass and very similar to the RAF eagle shoulder flash.
I assumed that the Cap Badge had always been similar the one used today.

Thanks again guys. The next step is to try and identify the man in the photograph.

Further to my last, the uniform of the newly formed RAF is described in detail in Flight International magazine 4th April 1918 edition. pages 372 and 373. You can look at this online via the Flightglobal Archive. RNAS officers and other ranks did not wear khaki, they wore a naval uniform. Other ranks wore a naval blue cap with worsted anchor and crown badge. Once the RAF was formed other ranks went into khaki. The cap was khaki with a black peak with a worsted badge of a 'bird' under the crown, just like the man in your picture which must date from after 1st April 1918. Hope this all helps.
Quite apart from the archive above and the photos I have I know about this from conversations with my father about the uniform change. He hated losing his RNAS blue naval uniform when he went into RAF 'other ranks' khaki. He lost a rank too as RNAS AM2's (air mechanic) were re-classified to AM3, although his pay stayed the same. As a result of this he didn't have much time for the new RAF!
All the best with your research.
Robin

[RWest]

Originally Posted by manchesters

Hello,

I am not doubting what badge your father wore, BUT, the badge you describe with an Anchor is Royal Navy and NOT the RNAS.

regards

Sorry Simon you're not right...
I quote from 'Uniforms and Insignia, Royal Naval Air Service Rank Insignia 1914-1918'
'RNAS ratings wore insignia similar to the rest of the Royal Navy. All wore the "fore and aft rig" ("Class I" or "Class III" uniforms) of jacket and tie with gilt buttons for Chief Petty Officers and black buttons for others.' RNAS ratings did not wear khaki. RNAS collar badges were of a 'bird' as it was known, and worsted specialty sleeve badges also had the bird above, but the cap badge was an anchor under the crown.
Also please check out Flight International 4th April 1918, pages 372 and 373 for full information of the new RAF uniform detailing the new other ranks cap and badge.
Robin

[RWest]

Simon, I think I owe you an apology. It appears that RNAS wore khaki (or sometimes blue) so my statement that the RNAS never wore khaki is only true of home service. However, from all my photos and every reference I can find the badge was definitely the anchor and crown until April 1918.

[RWest]

I missed out the word 'overseas'
Simon, I think I owe you an apology. It appears that RNAS wore khaki (or sometimes blue) OVERSEAS so my statement that the RNAS never wore khaki is only true of home service. However, from all my photos and every reference I can find the badge was definitely the anchor and crown until April 1918.

[dragon166]

Here are 2 pics
1. RNAS showing the anchor capbadge and
2. RAF showing the subject cap badge. This photo is particularly interesting as it shows the wear of the "ROYAL AIR FORCE" arm titles as well as the khaki/red eagle badge.
Hope this helps

[Nozzer]

.............................

[fougasse1940]

Some direct links to the relevant pages of Flight International magazine 4th April 1918 edition:
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%200376.html
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%200377.html

Rgds, Thomas