Borden AFV school 1938...

[Voltigeur]

Phillip, M-9 is identified as Lt. T.G. Gibson.
Jo

[Voltigeur]

A question to Bill M. Why would the then Canadian Army HQ would have these officers and ncos trained in how to use armoured tanks and vehicles,send them on course in the UK,pamper them to become the professional core of the CAC, and then like Lt.Col Roberge (and maybe some others) be returned to the infantry?????
Jo

[Phillip Herring]

Please note that this was a short course, less than two weeks in Borden. Members of the army get all sorts of funny courses which may or may not be relevant to their future assignments. In the case of PF infantry officers, it may have been a good intro to armoured warfare - at least a primer which may or may not have helped them when commanding infantry battalions (with supporting tank regiments) or when commanding higher formations.

Phil

[Bill A]

Tank doctrine at the time was quite different than the blitzkrieg method developed in the Second WW. The tank was deployed much as it had been in WW1, as a walking speed vehicle, more or less a mobile artillery piece cum pill box. As such it was extremely important that the infantry understand the vehicles and know their capabilities.

[Voltigeur]

Thanks Gentlemen for the explanations,much appreciated.
Jo

[WJ Miller]

Jo,

Short answer. I don't know? But I can hazard a guess,

Keep in mind these courses (at Camp Borden, Ontario) are pre-war (1938-39) and only two weeks long. This was a way of introducing to various regiments "new" technology. The Canadian Armoured Corps proper was still over two years away, when this photo was taken. At this time only the Germans had really embraced "tank" warfare and actively developing it. At the beginning of the war they were leaps and bounds ahead of the allies. Indeed, Canadian tankmen didn't even see a real modern tank until 1941.

The officers involved at the Borden course, were there adminstratively and I doubt intended on becoming fighting armoured commanders. At the time, our cavalry units like the RCD and the Straths were quite happy to gallop around the prairie on their horses still. They were reluctantly adopting antiquated armoured cars and motorcycles. It was only Major Worthington that was forward thinking enough to keep pushing for real armour.

The course itself taught basic driving, maintenance and mechanics, gunnery, communications and tactics. That's a lot to pack into a two week course. The school in 1938 had 12 Carden-Lloyd tankettes (machine gun carriers) and a bunch of Ford Model-T's and model-A's. Late in 1938 they got two Vickers Light tanks (a three man sardine can)

By the time the CAC was formed in August of 1940, many of the previous Cavalry and MGC units were re-designated, so these officers were redesignated as well. Also consider the age of most of these Militia/Permanent Force men. By the time war broke out and the Cdn. Army was mobilized overseas, these officers were pushing the limit for active combat duty. As there was a need for more junior officers, if a senior officer did want to see service with a front line unit you may have to accept a lower rank. Also I can imagine some of these men as a bit "stuck in their ways" too, and perhaps more effective in General Staff/Admin positions.

The Essex Regiment was created from scratch at Windsor, Ontario in 1936. The idea being that new mechanized cavalry needed mechanics and drivers familiar with vehicles and there was no better place to find these men than the heart of Canada's Automobile industry. The Essex Regt (tank) also introduced the black beret, at their own expense, to Canada in 1937. The regiment was mobilized as the 30th Recce Regt. spent a lot of time at the training centre in Dundurn, Saskatchewan but was used in England for assembling trucks and tanks as they were delivered from Canada. A job they were not too happy with as most of the men were getting paid far less for the same work they used to be doing in the auto plants back home. The CAOF 30th Recce in England were disbanded in 1944. The Essex Regiment was renamed after the war as the "Windsor Regiment (RCAC)".

The Cdn tank school replaced by the new CAC Armoured Fighting Vehicles Training Centre(s) in 1940.

[Voltigeur]

Thanks Bill, for the information. it sheds some light on a little-known time in Canadian military history.
Jo

[WJ Miller]

I have this panoramic taken about one month before the outbreak of the Second World War.

Here is a link to my website where I have posted a larger/detailed version.
http://www.canadiankangaroos.ca/Site...o9_crop_LR.jpg

An interesting mix of dress. Forage Caps, berets, old badges, new badges, no badges, Sam Browns, snake belts, web belts, no belts...

The diced cloth on the ALI berets is interesting, there was one of these berets on ebay a few months ago with a a flat back, silver badge on it.

[WJ Miller]

1) I thought it was interesting that this well dressed corporal is wearing 7th Hussars badges, two years after they were amalgamated with the 11th Hussars!?

2-3) Details of a couple Three Rivers Regiment officers, the second is a well decorated WW1 veteran.

4-5) A couple fellows from the ontario Regiment (tank), one old sweat and a shiny new Captain.

No idea who these guys are in this photo (outside of Worthington, whom I easily recognize), the photo as I received it, was not named.

[Phillip Herring]

Interesting detail - some ALI members have their collar badges facing out, some facing in.
Phil

[Voltigeur]

Congrats on the great photograph Bill and as Phil said lots of interesting details. The kind of photo to make someone look for more informations on the subject.
Jo

[servicepub]

Can anyone tell me which regiment perpetuates the Argyll Light Infantry and where they are located? Also, is there a museum? I would like to try to find examples of the ALI forage cap and beret to photograph for my headdress book.

[Bill A]

Hi Clive, The ALI (Tank) was converted to the 9 AT Regt RCA, and then amalgamated with the Hastings & Prince Edward Regiment on September 1, 1954.
Belleville was the original regimental HQ, but I am not sure about post war...

[Voltigeur]

Morning all.About the perpetuation. Stopped by a few years ago and it's still is but, Clive, I remember that the unit did not have any period headdress, as seen in the photographs.
Jo

[servicepub]

Bill A and Jo. Thnx. I will have to keep an eye out for these at shows or in private collections.
Bill Miller, any chance of a high-resolution scan of a couple of these guys wearing the ALI beret and forage caps? If you can scan at 1200DPI or better than I can re-size these to a decent size without losing detail.
Clive