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#1
14-12-08, 12:01 AM
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Canadian Fusiliers mystery.
A question for fellow Canadians. I have been trying to identify the patch worn by band members of the Canadian Fusiliers Regiment in this photograph. The thing that bugs me is the little "thingy" in the middle of the Pacific Command patch.I know they were part of the 13th Canadian Infantry Brigade for Operation Cottage on Kiska. Also,of the four soldiers in front, only the one on the far left seems to be wearing a cloth shoulder titles of the Canadian Fusiliers. And, the soldier in the background has a different shaped badge....Winnipeg Grenadiers? Last question, how come they are not wearing the "Kiska patch".
So, does anyone has an explanation? Jo http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/d...hki39aplh10kh3
__________________
"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese. Last edited by Voltigeur; 14-12-08 at 12:32 AM. 
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#2
14-12-08, 12:40 AM
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Tripp's book says the Winnipeg Grenadiers were "reconstituted on January 10. 1942... then served in Kiska from August 16, 1943 until December 22, 1943." So, good eye, Jo.
As for the "thingy", it's a star. From Clive Laws Distinguishing Patches: "The meaning of this star device centrally placed on the Pacific Command formation patch has not discovered. Worn here by bandsmen of the London Fusiliers on their departure for Kiska. No orders have been uncovered to authorise this patch and the Regimental Museum has no information" The photo he used is the same one you show.
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#3
14-12-08, 03:34 AM
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Having served in the unit (now 4th Battalion RCR) I,ve seen alot of strange photos of The Canadian Fusiliers including one with officers wearing cloth shoulder titles on their Service Dress and the Kiska patch worn with the Pacific Command patch. Here are a few.
 
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#4
14-12-08, 12:10 PM
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A lot of time has been spent investigating the patch. To date, no actual example of the patch has surfaced in any collection. Such an example would be very useful. There are still a few unidentified and unexplained Canadian formation patches from the Second World War.
Another interesting observation. The sergeant on the left of the image wears the Canadian Fusiliers embroidered shoulder title, while none of the other Fusiliers have regimental shoulder titles.
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#5
14-12-08, 05:58 PM
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Thanks to David, Michael and Bill for your input. I appreciate the effort to find an answer.
Regards. Jo
__________________
"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese.
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#6
14-12-08, 06:44 PM
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Kiska patch
Another poser for you, as well. In this photo from the same search, what is on the Regiment de Hull officer's right (his) collar? Looks like a single Sault Ste. Marie & Sudbury collar. Also looks like he has a second cap badge on his beret immediately behind the Hull badge. The SSM were in 6th Div at Nanaimo at this time; would they have attached an officer from one reg. to another and would he keep wearing both badges? (BTW: Looks like Jack Layton on the left, but that's another mystery.)
Last edited by DavidS; 14-12-08 at 06:50 PM. Reason: Because I can't read.
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#7
14-12-08, 07:21 PM
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The SSM&SR were tasked to send a machine gun company or some such detachment to the Kiska operation. However, isn't that the US rank for major? He does appear to be wearing two cap badges, perhaps Monty worship?
Jack sure has aged well.
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#8
14-12-08, 09:10 PM
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Gentlemen, the officer in the center is Major E.T. Jacques of the RdeH. He is wearing what was common practice et the time, a US major's rank badge on the beret next to the cap badge and also on his collar. This, to be recognized by US personnels on Kiska who did not know the ranks pips of canadian officers. Major Jacques would go to North West Europe at the end of 1944 and became the 2 i/c of the Regiment de Maisonneuve,for a few months then went on to a staff job at 2nd Div.HQ.
I met Maj.Jacques (and heard a few reminiscences) a few times,in the mid-80's at social gatherings at the Officers Mess of the Maisies. Another wll-known canadian officer served as CO of the RdeH at Kiska....a certain Lt-Col. Dollard Menard. Jo
__________________
"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese. Last edited by Voltigeur; 14-12-08 at 09:21 PM.
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#10
06-02-09, 06:49 PM
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another star shot
...I,ve found another photo of this patch with the star in the book "silent Victory" by Bill Corfield which details the units involvement in the Kiska operation.I,ll post it when I can blow it up enough.There is an old album with probably hundreds of private photos of the operation that existed in the 4RCR lines years ago and there may be more photos and mabe some answers to the mystery of the insignia in question.I,ve asked some officers at the unit to try and locate the album for closer examination of the photos. Mike O'leary,if your around have a look for the album.It contains some fantastic shots and is a fantastic resource. Stay tuned gents and I,ll let you know when I,ve exemined the album.I'll try to get up there next week...M.
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#11
11-02-09, 09:25 PM
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We have located 3 photo albums and a 200 page history of the units involvement in the Kiska operation....a fairly significant find I should think.I,ll let you gents know what I find as I,m not going to be able to examine them until Thurs or Friday.again stay tuned.
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#12
11-02-09, 09:27 PM
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I'll be waiting Michael.
Jo
__________________
"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese.
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#13
11-02-09, 09:45 PM
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another photo of the star patch
Out of Corfields book Silient Victory.Definately something on the guys Pacific patch.He doesn't appear to have a CF cap badge either.Does anyone know why this unit appears to be wearing berets that are either black or some other colour other than a standard Khaki Beret?
Hopefully some answers in thsi weeks find.  
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#14
11-02-09, 09:46 PM
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Officers Bronze badge...
Now that I look at it its an Officers Bronze CF cap badge.
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