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#1
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Royal Naval Division Machine Gun Battalion
Good Morning All
I know these badges have been a subject of hot debate and until now I've passed up on quite a few and got caught out on a couple of one piece versions in my early days. I've now just picked up the one pictured below, it came with a genuine MGC cap badge and pair of shoulder titles and there was no hard sell on the RND bit. As these badges were purportedly put together in field workshops this is the type of construction I have always considered to be expected under those conditions. I believe both parts are genuine, the stumps of the hexagonal lugs are still visible and the solder is old and dull (not as shiny as it looks in the picture). The badge has an even polish across the front and the polish residue is in all the nooks and crannies and doesn't look false or recent. As usual people are going to have differing views so I'm opening it up to see those views. As usual, many thanks in advance Paddy |
#2
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Hi Paddy
Well done. Looks good. John |
#3
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Hello Paddy,looks a good one to me also,if I was lucky enough to find one i would be happy with I would want it to have the look of your badge like you had a couple that weren't quite right so will carry on the search. Gerard
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#4
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John & Gerard
Many thanks for your comments, I'm certainly a lot happier with it than a lot of others I've seen. Paddy |
#5
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OK, I'll throw the spanner in.
The composite badge was made from an MGC cap badge and an RND shoulder title as this one appears to be. If this was the composition they came up with then I cannot imagine it being soft(lead) soldered and to such an extremely poor finish. That badge was done as a one off, I cannot imagine anyone in the workshops that these badges were puportedley made, soldering a couple of bits of metal together in such a sloppy way. There's enough solder on that on to do a 100 badges. I believe the original to have had the RND title brazed to the front of the MGC badge not with a reinforcing link. A good starting point would be looking at known original RND MG badges and looking for variations in the gun, and seeing what the date of this particular version is. Unfortunately I think this is a cobbled together attempt from genuine items neither of which now have much value. |
#6
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Hi Paddy and all,
Like Jim I also have my doubts about your composite badge in the first post. I think I have shown mine before but here they are again for comparison. Note the Gaunt plaque on each. The plaque on a MGC badge has also been discussed before and was not usual. Cheers, Tinto |
#7
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Is there any contemprary photographic evidence of any man in uniform wearing this badge? Cheers, Bill
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#8
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Quote:
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#9
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Hello Paddy,
I think you have summed up the situation very well. We will probably never know the full story of these badges. Cheers, Tinto |
#10
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I agree with Paddy. Tintos badges are in my opinion modern copies for alll the reasons stated. The s/t part is stamped and not a s/t. There are no lug marks as one would expect to see. I bought one many years ago and as illustrated very similar to Paddys. I was very excited to see another so similar. It is exactly what I would expect, rough amatuerish soldering, s/t utilised with lug scars. Made in the field in limited numbers. Any example such as Tintos appears often in huge numbers at odds with what we suposedly know.
Here are images of mine. Bought over 10 / 12 years ago. Allegedly removed from a display in a Naval club where it had resided for years (buy the badge not the story though). Mine was used in a book recently as a example of a good one, the late forum member Dragonz really rated it too. I am happy with mine and would be with Paddys. This is only the second example I have ever seen similar to mie....good find. If made as a copy more would exist. TRT Last edited by TRT; 29-01-14 at 04:19 PM. Reason: additional omments |
#11
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Paddy, thanks for taking my view in the spirit that it was meant.
We always say "never say never" so I have to keep playing Devil's Advocate on this one. My greatest problem with this is not whether either piece is genuine, most likely they are. My big problem is the soft solder and the amount of it, a totally amateur job poorly executed. Where were they made? In the field? Of course not, there weren't people in the trenches joining two badges together so the RN Machine gunners could go and fight!? Having not really ever pursued this one before I have vague recollections of statements claiming these badges were made in Devonport Dockyard. If this is the case then there is even less argument for soft solder. I don't have a horse in this race so all opinions and findings are interesting. |
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