SAS badge On green beret

[JON188]

Gents
I've been asked by an old guy if I could find any ID on an ex Coldstream guardsman who supposedly went into 2 SAS.
I've his regt no.
The info is on the back of a 1943 dated sketch of the individual (owner won't let me place on public forums) of the guy wearing a SAS badges green beret.
Anyone any ideas on whether this was adopted by a particular unit (poss special boat section, RSR, etc
Regards
Jonimage.jpg

[arnhem2280]

Hi

There is one of these in the IWM collection and also another one in a small private museum that belonged to an officer in 2 SAS who was badly injured on a raid on an aerodrome by the name of Lt James Quentin Hughes who was awarded the MC for the raid and later wrote a book called 'Who cares who wins'.

Cheers

Arnhem

The name Willis Vickers rings a bell as beinga member of the Regiment but I can't remember any more details.

[Belly]

Apologies if this is a statement of the obvious, but if someone left the SAS and joined the army commandos during the war they would take the badge of the parent unit and wear it on their beret (except for No 2 and 9 , etc).
I've seen a parachute regiment badge on a green beret in a period photo, for example.
Most SAS guys though tended to go the other way rounds i.e leave the Cdo to join the SAS! This practice would have course ceased when the Army Cdos were disbanded.
Just a thought!

[Tommo]

Originally Posted by Belly

I've seen a parachute regiment badge on a green beret in a period photo, for example.

Something I've always been curious of. Could you provide a pic?

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Tommo

Something I've always been curious of. Could you provide a pic?

I do have somewhere a copy of Soldier Magazine from the 1980's with a picture on the front cover of a Parachute Regiment officer attached to 3 Commando Brigade wearing a green beret with a Parachute Regiment cap badge, I will locate it in the next couple of days and scan it and post it on here.

[JON188]

image.jpg
Here is the front.
It appears there may be an obituary somewhere.
If I get the details I'll ask if I can post.
Interesting that it appears to be maybe a 2nd SAS trait

Regards
Jon

[charlie962]

this is probably himsas willis vickers1.JPG
extracted fromhttp://www.wivenhoehistory.org.uk/co...ndower-jackson

[Mike B]

Very odd

Thinking aloud - about the chicken and the egg

Photo dated '43' - 1943
Green Berets first issued Oct 1942 [A 3735 2 10/42] - [54/General/9505]

UNLIKELY 1 SAS/SRS - see below
Layforce - disbanded by then ie [late 1941 dispersed etc] - therefore this route was too late for usual routes to 1 SAS
Also
Recall Nos 7, 8, 11 Cdos disbanded well before Green beret introduced

Consider subsequent paths to 1 SAS / Special Raiding Squadron ...

Where is picture produced? Could it be Italy

DATES:
Suggests 'transition' - new Green beret, possibly awaiting SAS issue

DOES THIS FIT:
Could it be 2 SAS - Formed in North Africa 1943 - Also served in Italy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special_Air_Service

If so - Green beret may be pending issue of SAS beret

Also - note - formation included members of Small Scale Raiding Force (re the link above) - [recall this was 62 Commando - Green beret a likely issue to the unit]

CONCLUSION
Could be SSRF / 62 Cdo initial draft to 2 SAS pending issue of SAS headdress


SUGGEST
Need service records of the individual to help solve the mystery - and cast some light on related ones

Mike

[Postwarden]

The following is a precise of details taken from file WO169/8272 at the National Archives.

The initial suggestion that on operations the SAS and Raiding Forces were entitled to wear green berets – which in the absence of Ordnance-issued items in the Middle East were to be made by the Tel Aviv firm Misha – was quickly stamped on by the Chief of Combined Operations who in a letter of 13th May 1943 pointed out to C-in-C Middle East that as the SAS were ‘in no way under my control or that of the Brigadier, Special Service Brigade’ he could not agree to the SAS Regiment wearing green berets.

A subsequent letter dated 21st May 1943 from HQ Middle East to HQ Raiding Forces says 'Beige berets approved and under manufacture'

Jon

[Mike B]

A very useful thread Jon (Jon188), and valuable insight Jon (Postwarden). You can not get much better than contemporary sources!
Mike

[gavin frankland]

Returning back to your parent unit you will retain your original cap badge. The SAS is formed from volunteers from other regts and not from civviy street so going back to a unit you would adopt there cap badge.

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Tommo

Something I've always been curious of. Could you provide a pic?

Not period but hopefully of interest.

[tynesideirish]

A couple of things.

Is it probable that the colour of the beret on the drawing is simply artistic licence, or a mistaken belief that the man was raiding forces so wore the green beret.

The later PARA wearing the Commando beret is simple. There was always a Commando trained PARA Officer attached to 3 Commando Brigade and a P-Company / Parachute trained Commando attached to 5 Airborne Brigade. I presume this is still the same with 16 AA Brigade.

[ianh67military]

Originally Posted by tynesideirish

A couple of things.

Is it probable that the colour of the beret on the drawing is simply artistic licence, or a mistaken belief that the man was raiding forces so wore the green beret.

The later PARA wearing the Commando beret is simple. There was always a Commando trained PARA Officer attached to 3 Commando Brigade and a P-Company / Parachute trained Commando attached to 5 Airborne Brigade. I presume this is still the same with 16 AA Brigade.

I've attached a picture taken in Colchester when 16AA came back from HERRICK13. I had to look twice to confirm what I was seeing. So yes, 2 PARA had a commando attached.

Ian H

[arnhem2280]

He was SQMS 2 SAS from 1944 until the Regiment was disbanded in 1945. He was a relative of Harry Vickers who was awarded the DCM for his actions in France.

Cheers

Arnhem