Twin tower k/c Suffolks

[Alan O]

I don't if you all saw the high price this badge (£95 plus commission et al) went for at Bosley's auction but I thought a picture of the reverse would be helpful with a picture of a fake one for reference. Note the Bosleys one have no wreath ends below the scroll.

Whilst described as Edwardian, I am sceptical as the s/p was for the Gibraltar castle and I would be amazed that a post 1906 slidered badge would be a peacetime official order with the incorrect castle. The type of construction is more typical of a Ww1 sub-contractor's work. I suspect it is a Ww1 rush job or a commercial badge.

If it was a 1902-03 badge then is should be lugged or have a long slider for the Brodrick.

Finally I have added the 2+1 tower badge where a 3rd centre tower was added into the die. Again not an official pattern.

[Alex Rice]

Hi Alan
The image is very blurry, but it looks like the vent holes are drilled rather than cast into the badge?
Cheers,
Alex

[Alan O]

They are punched and not drilled. I have seen drilled holes on fakes and they leave a noticeable burr where the drill cuts the metal out. Punched holes are much smoother. Drilled holes also tend to mark the reverse of the overlaid part.

[Sonofacqms]

These were issued during the Great War, I have one issued to a local man who never left Bury St. Edmunds.

Rob

[dubaiguy]

Originally Posted by Alan O

I don't if you all saw the high price this badge (£95 plus commission et al) went for at Bosley's auction but I thought a picture of the reverse would be helpful with a picture of a fake one for reference. Note the Bosleys one have no wreath ends below the scroll.

Whilst described as Edwardian, I am sceptical as the s/p was for the Gibraltar castle and I would be amazed that a post 1906 slidered badge would be a peacetime official order with the incorrect castle. The type of construction is more typical of a Ww1 sub-contractor's work. I suspect it is a Ww1 rush job or a commercial badge.

If it was a 1902-03 badge then is should be lugged or have a long slider for the Brodrick.

Finally I have added the 2+1 tower badge where a 3rd centre tower was added into the die. Again not an official pattern.

Hi Alan
Am I understanding you right in that the fake two tower badge has wreath ends below the scroll?

I have been looking for a genuine two tower to complete my infantry collection, but have been consistently put off by their poor construction. This probably adds weight to your theory that they are rushed manufacture from the Great War, not Edwardian - and as a result my search for a well constructed one is probably fruitless.

Having said that I thought the Bosley's badge looked in good nick from their photo (I had placed a bid on it). I also see that David Smith has one up for £100 which is consistent with the sloppy rushed construction, but isn't a huge amount less than Bosleys' inclusive of commission and internet fees.

Cheers
Mark

[Alan O]

I have dug out my Suffolk badges and thought I would show these ones. They are in my opinion all WW1 era. I don't buy (literally at £100) the theory that they are a 1902/3 transition badge from the QVC. They are just not the quality of an early Edwardian era badge. The k/c design was sealed in 1902 and would have been luuged and then produced in 1903 with a long slider. None of the so-called 'transition' badges come with anything other than a post 1906 slider.

I think it is far more likely that they were a wartime expedient re-using the old 2 tower design in the rush to produce badges in 1915. At some time a third tower was added to the k/c 2 tower die to make it resembles the official pattern.

I include the un-pierced bi-metal variant which again I suspect is a badge made in the 1915 production rush by a firm not previously engaged in badge making. There is the alternate option that these variants do not conform to the sealed pattern because they were made for commercial sale to soldiers in canteens and the like. There are a number of other regts whose badges can be found with incorrectly unpierced areas or with regtl castles. In the Suffolks case I think you can rule out TF Assn purchases as they had a separate design altogether.

For completeness I include the 1916 all brass version.

Left to right - 1916 pattern (all brass), solid centre Gibraltar castle, 1902 pattern with post 1906 short slider, 2 tower regtl castle, 3 tower modified regtl castle.

I would point out that each of these cost me under a tenner except for the solid one which I was given. The 'scarcity' and price of the £100 badges for sale is unwarranted in my opinion.

[dubaiguy]

In contradiction to Alan's theory regarding the rushed war-time manufacture of the KC two tower Suffolk’s, I thought I had found a genuine Edwardian one from a nicely executed die. On first inspection it seemed to match exactly figure 604, the KC two tower, in KK and not the usual, but genuine, poorly constructed badge which has extremely poor definition including 'melted' castellation on the turrets (and is appears now to be retailed around the £90 mark). I was over the moon as this is the penultimate badge I needed to complete my entire OR's infantry collection and I wanted one that looked the same as KK 604, with wreath ends and not the 'rubbish looking' expensive wartime expedient.

However, on receiving it the doubts set in! Though it really does match KK's photograph, it doesn’t have sweatholes and is pretty flat in comparison to the QVC two tower. Then utter disappointment! I suddenly started to see others on eBay listed by sellers that I certainly wouldn't buy from. Oh no!

One for the rogues gallery of absolutely not what to buy then?
Mark

[Alan O]

Taxicar fake. The presence of wreath ends under the scroll is an obvious giveaway.

[dubaiguy]

Thanks Alan.
I'm definitely going to give up my search and gracefully accept that the badge shown as fig 604 in KK with wreath ends just doesn't exist. The only KC two tower version being a WW1 dog's dinner expedient without wreath ends. I'll not be paying £90 for one though for sure.
Thanks again Alan.
Mark

[Alan O]

One further variant that came with some WW1 era badges. The same altered die to add the 3rd turret but this time the crown and the turrets have not been pierced as they should have been.