MYSTERY 35TH LIGHT INFANTRY/RIFLE VOLUNTEERS BUTTON

[Cribyn]

Another awful day here, much too wet and windy to get outside and do anything useful, so here is another of my "mystery" buttons.

As you will see from the photos, black horn, Victorian crown over strung bugle horn with '35' in centre surrounded by a wreath of oak leaves. Large size made by Hebbert & Co London.

I have been through my Indian Army Button books without success, no illustration of this button and no obvious Light Infantry/Rifles candidate for a late Victorian button such as this.

Possibly then a Rifle Volunteers button, not in Howard Ripley's book on the subject (unless I've missed it even after multiple readings!).

'35' could either be a County precedence number of a Corps number. I believe the precedence number 35 was given to the Cinque Ports Rifle Volunteers and their buttons are quite well recorded. Given the 'heritage' of the Cinque Ports I doubt they would have used a design like this anyway.

I am thinking one of the many larger Rifle Volunteer units but has anyone come across a button or a badge with '35' like this before?

Not for sale by the way!

All suggestions gratefully received.

Roger

[Wmr-RHB]

To give you some possibilities to contemplate about:

Yes, 35 was the precedence number of Cinque Ports.

And there were the following 35th ... RVCs:
35th Middlesex RVC (1860-1861)
35th Cheshire RVC (1853-1880)
35th Staffordshire RVC (1860-1864)
35th Lanarkshire RVC (1860-1860)
35th Kent RVC (1960-1877)
35th Yorkshire West Riding RVC (1860-1880)

A few very short living amongst them.

[Cribyn]

Hello Henk

Thanks for the list of possible '35' corps. I will start cross-checking to see if any in your list have identified buttons, it may narrow the field down a little.

Roger

[Tiger Pete]

Hi,

I'm interested to know more about the 35th being associated with the CP RVC. On checking several books I can only see that they had 10 corps. Even with the 20th Corps (from Sussex) I cannot see how they got above this. There were only several administration battalions at various times and for the most part they were known as the 1st CP RVC.

My understanding is that precedence numbers were given to the corps within a county based on date of formation etc. Did this extend on a national level too and is this where 35 came in?

KR,

Pete.

[Cribyn]

Hello Pete

According to Ray Westlake's book "The Rifle Volunteers" county precedence was "settled according to the date on which the first company in the county was formed. The eventual order of seniority was ...." and he goes on to list the Cinque Ports as precedence number 35.

Strictly speaking I think the proper administrative title for the collection of the Cinque Ports was a "Confederation" but for the purposes of the Rifle Volunteers it must have been considered on a par with a county.

This county precedence number had nothing to do with the number of Corps raised in a county. Ray's book also gives 10 as the number of Corps raised in the Cinque Ports.

Unfortunately, certainly insofar as buttons are concerned, the county precedence number or a Corps number can be found on insignia which is most confusing when trying to identify items!

Roger

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by Tiger Pete

Hi,

I'm interested to know more about the 35th being associated with the CP RVC. On checking several books I can only see that they had 10 corps. Even with the 20th Corps (from Sussex) I cannot see how they got above this. There were only several administration battalions at various times and for the most part they were known as the 1st CP RVC.

My understanding is that precedence numbers were given to the corps within a county based on date of formation etc. Did this extend on a national level too and is this where 35 came in?

KR,

Pete.

I assume there is some misunderstanding here. Nowhere in this thread a 35th Cinque Ports RVC is mentioned. It is only pointed to that Cinque Ports had the precedence number 35 within the sequence of counties. And because sometimes RVC badges had the county precedence number instead of the RVC number, it is relevant here.

[Tiger Pete]

Hi Roger/ Henk,

Thank you both for your replies which answer my question.

Roger you are right, the CP was not a county but had some Sussex Corps attached and had affiliations with Kent also. I've not come across it being referred to by the 35th precedence number- hence my question.

Thanks again.

KR,

Pete.

[Wmr-RHB]

Originally Posted by Tiger Pete

I've not come across it being referred to by the 35th precedence number- hence my question.

You may be interested in this document: http://hcvv.home.xs4all.nl/milweb/Gr...anges-1860.pdf
It is mainly based on Westlake.