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"French" Commando
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Army Commando: Setting Europe ablaze since 1940 |
#2
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....and yet you can expect some idiot will bet on this piece of garbage... Jo
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"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese. |
#3
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Only 400 badges of the 1er Batallion Fusiliers Marins Commando were issued and all have a number engraved at the back. This one is obviously not original.
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#4
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LOL, "MADE IN ENGLAND" I suppose a scarce thing, in itself, these days!
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#5
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Does any one know the significance of the book he has images of?
The story is the 'made in England' badges were made by Gaunt for the longest day. They certainly are spot on from the front when compared to the original WWII 400.
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Army Commando: Setting Europe ablaze since 1940 |
#6
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I don't believe the book provides much additional information.
All the original 400 badges were made by JR Gaunt starting in spring 1944 and as already mentioned were all numbered. Keep in mind the unit was disbanded in July 1945. The commandos tradition in France was maintained with the creation of the 'commandos marine' in April 1946. The badge was very much inspired from the 1er BFM original design created by M. Chauvet, with the new title 'Commando marine'. The back of the original badge doesn't show any detail contrary to the one for sale on EBay. It is pretty much flat. As for a restrike made for the movie 'The longest Day', no such thing existed. Attached is a photo of C. Marquand who portrayed Cdt Kieffer (the unit CO); you can clearly see the badge has a 'Commando marine' title. Cheers Pierre |
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Thanks Pierre
Great close up from the Longest Day, exploding that myth! Clearly a post war badge instead. I do find the Made in England badges a mystery, I am convinced it is either from the same 'mold' as the original or has been copied from an original. Not sure its even possible to use the 'mold' to dis strike a badge?! If you place one side by side with an original, the frontal detail is verbatim, down to every dimple. Paul
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Army Commando: Setting Europe ablaze since 1940 |
#8
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Paul,
I don't know if technically a restrike is possible from the original mold. The truth of the matter is Gaunt sold copies of this badge with pretty good results compared to the original (see photos). I tried to capture close up of the copy on EBay and you can clearly see the differences not to mention the die flaw on the right of the ribbon: not too good IMO. Badge #1 was Kieffer's (no surprise here...). Cheers Pierre |
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A very gtood article,altough in french, about the different models of "commando-marine" cap badges made and worn since the Second World War.
Jo http://www.passionmilitaria.com/t690...mmandos-marine
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"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese. |
#10
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Hi Gents,
This well known picture of C. Marquand clearly shows the "Commando Marine" badge. The "legend" of the badge Made in England for the film "The longest day" comes from Maurice Chauvet himself in an press article in 1974... This badge is of course a post war production. Best regards .. Herve |
#11
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About the Chauvet Cap Badge.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/obit...e-Chauvet.html
Badge No. 1 was assigned to Maj. Kieffer and subsequent numbers up to 195 were assigned to the members of 1, 8 and K Gun Troops. The remainder were presented to Senior Allied Commanders (including Churchill) or used to replace lost badges [eg Badge 177 was issued to Francis Guezenner but was lost and replaced with number 310.]
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"There truly exists but one perfect order: that of cemeteries. The dead never complain and they enjoy their equality in silence." - “There are things we know that we know,” “There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we do not know we don't know.” Donald Rumsfeld, before the Iraqi Invasion,2003. Age is something that doesn't matter, unless you are a cheese. |
#12
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Great thread guys!
Pierre I'm not a fan of the Made of England badge you've shown in post #8, they are normally excellent quality (which leads me to suspect they are Gaunt made), the one you have shown looks like a copy of the copy! See image attached, Made in England on the left, original one of the 400 wartime badges on the right. Ignoring the colour difference which is largely due to bad photography, but look at every dimple, they are exactly the same. The Made in England must have been either been molded from an original of the original die/mold was used. I still wouldn't buy one from that seller for £600 but you can usually pick them up for less than £100, and are a good placeholder until a real one turns up! Cheers Paul
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Army Commando: Setting Europe ablaze since 1940 |
#13
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Paul,
Are you absolutely sure that the badge on the right of your photo is an original? I've added to your photo a close-up of a Gaunt restrike (back of the badge is flat with 'JR Gaunt C 1943' engraved). You can clearly see differences. Could the 'Made in England' version be not related to Gaunt? I don't have a high resolution photo of a WW2 original badge, unfortunately. Cheers Pierre |
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I'm sure it's real Pierre
You have preempted my next post which is I suspect the solid backed version marked J. R. Gaunt c 1943, isn't actually made by Gaunt. I've never handled one of these in the flesh, but they clearly lack the quality and finish you'd expect from a manufacturer such as Gaunt. As I said in my earlier post, however, I suspect that the Made in England badge though was made by Gaunt, as from the front it is a verbatim of the original (only the front). It begs the question though why didn't they apply their usual maker mark? Mind you they didn't on the original 400 either! All of this is pure conjecture of course, but I know what I see! cheers Paul
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Army Commando: Setting Europe ablaze since 1940 Last edited by Belly; 17-10-17 at 05:55 AM. |
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Based on what I have seen over the years I would go along with Paul's thoughts.
The good thing about numbered originals is that you can track them back to their original recipients. The excellent 'Commando Kieffer' by Eric Le Penven has a partial but not definitive list of attributed numbers. Other issues being made after D-Day, including to associated personalities eg to Charles Vaughan. Le Penven's list explodes the myth that original veterans were given a maximum of 2 badges - several received three - including Kieffer himself. A very useful thread - the number of variants is interesting and puzzling as the purpose of the various patterns is not always clear - souvenir, veteran badge, association, etc. It is likely that Maurice Chauvet who designed the badge was linked with some subsequent manufacture - as evident in Herve's post. For less obvious fakes there are tell tale signs to distinguish originals, but as elluded to by Paul ... and with respect to all on the forum ... they should not be discussed in public. The fakers will always look for clues and need no encouragement. Mike |
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