Volunteer Artillery question

[kingsley]

Can anyone tell me why, and when, there were two variations of WM Vol arty plume sockets? Obviously they are OR and officer patterns.
Thanks

[manchesters]

K,
I dont know why, I dont think there is an actual official reason for the differentiation and of course you can multiply that difference many fold when you consider, straight flames, tear drop shaped flames, absence of scrolls and even ubique scrolls on some WM ones, not to mention the ones to named units, Lancashire, Midddlesex etc..

A great collecting field. I even have one with no device on the ball

regards

[kingsley]

Thanks Simon. There were so many small Vol Arty units across the empire that it is inevitable that there was so much variation. I think most of them, having had their own distinctive HP made, then added RA pouch badges and other insignia bought "off the shelf".
What I have always wanted to know is more detail about insignia of the many Australian Vol Arty units. There would be at least 20 QVC coat-of-arms HPs worn in the various colonies and it is well documented that (only?) NSW and Victoria wore busbys with the plume sockets as well. If ORs wore the variety with the gun in the centre, probably the officers did also.
Here is an example of a relic HP that Dave Cutforth repaired for me a couple of years ago.

[manchesters]

Yes, thats a rare plate which my records show worn from c.1878 - 1886.

regards

[fairlie63]

Originally Posted by manchesters

Yes, thats a rare plate which my records show worn from c.1878 - 1886.

regards

About 1878 to 1883 Simon, they handed their helmets in about April 1883 to have the plates replaced with the Tasmanian Local Forces (or Defence Forces, can't remember now) plate. That was worn until new Dress Regulations published in 1887 approved the SOUTHERN TASMANIAN ARTILLERY plate with Pro Aris Et Focis in the scroll above the gun.

[fairlie63]

>What I have always wanted to know is more detail about insignia of the many Australian Vol Arty units.

At least one recent dig on the site of the former Prince of Wales Battery in Hobart has turned up a gilt RA busby plume holder with all mottoes, presumably worn by the Hobart Town Volunteer Artillery who were the only gunners here. Another example of a gilt RA busby plume holder came out of the ground at a Hobart residence many years ago.

The Launceston Volunteer Artillery also wore a busby but I don't know what design was on the ball of the plume holder.

Keith

[manchesters]

Thanks Keith.

[kingsley]

Thanks, Keith, live and learn! That makes three colonies so far known to wear the busby.
Do you have a list of the STA HP variations? Some had Volunteer, some didn't, some had a motto etc. I have also seen a gilt plate with Volunteer.

[fairlie63]

Kingsley, as far as I know it went in the following sequence -

Officers of Southern Tasmanian Volunteer Artillery (STVA) and possibly those of the Launceston Volunteer Artillery (LVA), wore circa 1878 onwards a silver plate with Pro Aris Et Focis in the scroll above the gun, and TASMANIAN VOLUNTEER ARTILLERY in the scroll below the gun.

From about 1878 or 1879-1883 other ranks of the STVA wore a white metal plate with SOUTHERN in the scroll above the gun and TASMANIAN VOLUNTEER ARTILLERY in the scroll below the gun. It is possible that the forage cap was worn 1878-79 while they waited for their helmets. I think I previously came across a contemporary newspaper report regarding their uniforms and who was to manufacture them in Tasmania, but offhand I can't find it in my notes and might need to go back to Trove.

From 1882 the LVA wore a plate consisting of a white metal wreath surmounted by a crown, in the centre of which were the entwined letters LVA on a field gun. These, with the helmets, were only received from UK in 1882 so the forage cap was probably worn prior.

In April 1883 the STVA were directed to hand their helmets in to get new plates affixed, these were almost certainly the generic Tasmanian Defence Force plates referred to in Dress Regulations 1886 for all corps in Tasmania.

In Dress Regulations 1887 the STVA and LVA revert to individual white metal plates, dropping the word Volunteer from the scrolls and inserting Pro Aris Et Focis in the top scroll, and the Tasmanian Permanent Artillery adopted a plate in gilt with a laurel spray in the scroll above the gun and the title TASMANIAN PERMANENT ARTILLERY in the bottom scroll.

I don't think the latter was actually adopted prior to 1890, the OC TPA trying to convince the Govt to source white helmets from the Victorian Military Forces at the time.

There were brass Launceston Artillery plates that were nickel or silver plated, haven't seen any STA plates of that description but it may be they exist. I have previously had a bronzed (I think) LA plate - that may have had screw posts. Got rid of all that stuff some 20 years ago to a collector here, and much of it had belonged to Jeff C beforehand.

Keith

[fairlie63]

As far as I know NSW, Victoria, WA and Tasmania used the busby. I think SA used a shako, definitely by 1866, referred to a cap and cover prior to this. Queensland appears to have a peaked cap in 1862, with helmets by 1878.

[badgecollector]

thanks keith
you are a wealth of information.
cheers
bc

[kingsley]

Thanks! Greatly appreciated. I would like to see a selection of these in an album, never actually worked out how to do it.

[kingsley]

Thanks! Greatly appreciated. I would like to see a selection of these in an album, never actually worked out how to do it.
Never seen a plate with Permanent Arty.