Green Jackets Brigade Quandry

[Mike H]

Leighs image must be post 1972 as the LI guy is wearing a crossbelt. There was no crossbelt worn in the Brigade period as far as im aware . I do have a couple of band pouch badges from the Btns. SCLI is as the collar badge on N-S posts . The KSLI is as the cap badge minus the letters,on 3 posts. The KOYLI is apparently 3 parts,a crown,french horn and a scroll.Durham LI i dont know about.
The LI had there first issue of greens in the 60s. The trousers were blue with a green stripe. The LI club wanted to produce a corporate identity for all LI regts.
Im happy that the images are from the correct period of time. They are in No1 caps rather than a Rifle Busby.

[MBrockway]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Leighs image must be post 1972 as the LI guy is wearing a crossbelt. There was no crossbelt worn in the Brigade period as far as im aware . I do have a couple of band pouch badges from the Btns. SCLI is as the collar badge on N-S posts . The KSLI is as the cap badge minus the letters,on 3 posts. The KOYLI is apparently 3 parts,a crown,french horn and a scroll.Durham LI i dont know about.
The LI had there first issue of greens in the 60s. The trousers were blue with a green stripe. The LI club wanted to produce a corporate identity for all LI regts.
Im happy that the images are from the correct period of time. They are in No1 caps rather than a Rifle Busby.

IIRC the LI and RGJ bands were amalgamated into the Band & Bugles of the Light Division in 1994.

Edwin Keely (mentioned on the sleeve) was BM of the LI's Corunna Band 1990-1994. I'm guessing he got the job in the amalgamated band in 1994!

The DOM mentioned, Captain R. J. Owen, is the conductor on the Over the Hills and Far Away: The Music of Sharpe album issued by the LI Division Band & Bugles in 1996. By 2001 Owen was DOM of The Scots Guards.

Mark

[Mike H]

I think the rear view image of the Rifles band is actually the Light Division band before it changed to the Rifles band. This is due to the full red collar rather than piped. Also the boss badge is very slightly different. Its the Rifles cord boss badge but it has a red backing to the bugle ala LI.

[Mike H]

This came to my email inbox this evening. The guy is very knowledgeable regarding Ox & Bucks LI and RGJ. He suggests that it could be a trial pattern for the NCOs crossbelt which was shelved due to cost.

[monty]

Morning Mike.
If you think about the period we speak of here,Silver plate was in use far more than solid silver.I buy enough of this sort of thing,Most officer items for example that I buy are plated from this period.What I am saying is the plated option would be far cheaper.
All the best mate Gary

[Mike H]

R

Originally Posted by monty

Morning Mike.
If you think about the period we speak of here,Silver plate was in use far more than solid silver.I buy enough of this sort of thing,Most officer items for example that I buy are plated from this period.What I am saying is the plated option would be far cheaper.
All the best mate Gary

I know Gary,i have 3 examples in silver plate of the cap badge .
A blank, a Gaunt London one and a blank that is slightly smaller than the others.

[Toby Purcell]

It’s easy to get confused once the bandsman’s music case gets drawn into the mix because its wear had nothing to do with rank, it would generally be worn by all those playing a musical instrument. Conversely, Rifles pouch belts were worn by SNCOs and officers as an equivalent to the line regiment scarlet/crimson sashes.
Sadly music cases are less often seen now (Foot Guards never wore them for some reason), with just the Royal Marines and seemingly Rifles using them regularly. Another point to bear in mind when comparing the 1960s with today is that bands back then had only No1 Dress to wear, albeit adorned with belts, sashes, dress cords, etc. When the bands were much reduced and a Corps of Musicians formed one quid pro quo measure was the reissue at public expense of Full Dress uniforms aligned with strictly observed dress regulations. It is these full dress tunics, along with pukka music cases and pouch belts for SNCOs that we see in the contemporary photos of the Rifles band. One has to be careful not to compare apples and pears.

P.S. None of this is helping us ID the subject badge of this thread.

[MBrockway]

Originally Posted by Mike H

I think the rear view image of the Rifles band is actually the Light Division band before it changed to the Rifles band. This is due to the full red collar rather than piped. Also the boss badge is very slightly different. Its the Rifles cord boss badge but it has a red backing to the bugle ala LI.

The photograph is from the 7th Ride To The Wall commemoration at the National Memorial Arboretum that took place on 03 Oct 2015.

I did wonder if it were one of the Reserve bands, but checking the Facebook pages of the Waterloo Band and the Salamanca Band, both were elsewhere on 03 Oct.

There are too many definite adults for it to be one of The Rifles cadets bands.

I'm therefore pretty sure it is The Rifles Band & Bugles.

The Rifles were formed in 2007.

100% agree that the cord boss on the bandsman busby should be black not red - this is clear from The Rifles Dress Guidance. Switching the cord bosses would not be a huge expense, so I'm certainly puzzled why we're seeing red 'cherries' here.

From The Rifles dress regs - side hat boss on left, busby boss on right ...



Will do some more digging later!

Mark

[Mike H]

Sorry Mark ,ref cord boss. I meant the Light Division bands oval boss has a small red felt insert . Will post later on .

[leigh kitchen]

There is a 1993 dated faux seal skin "shako" for sale on eBay at the moment (item 142538381425) stated to be a Band of the Light Division item, it has a small round green boss with silver coloured bugle with no red backing. ( I have a (what I think is a similar era) natural fur cap but with the bugle backed red & mounted on an oval green boss.

[Toby Purcell]

The red being another potential area of confusion, relating as it does to the 46th Regiment's Paoli feathers, whereas red with a bugle within a rifles context had earlier been a privilege of the 60th KRRC. A dogs breakfast comes to mind, but it was ever thus when the so-called 'golden thread' becomes a veritable golden spider's web. Harrumph!

Can we perhaps get back to the subject of the thread?

[Mike H]

Originally Posted by leigh kitchen

There is a 1993 dated faux seal skin "shako" for sale on eBay at the moment (item 142538381425) stated to be a Band of the Light Division item, it has a small round green boss with silver coloured bugle with no red backing. ( I have a (what I think is a similar era) natural fur cap but with the bugle backed red & mounted on an oval green boss.

Wrong boss,in the wrong place. The LD band boss is a black oval. Mine came from Hobsons,still in the cellophane bag .
The ebay one appears to be LI minus backing,but its way to low .The LI is set almost at the top of the busby.

[Mike H]

The Soldiers of Oxford museum cannot help. They have no relevant images of what we are after

[MBrockway]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Sorry Mark ,ref cord boss. I meant the Light Division bands oval boss has a small red felt insert . Will post later on .

Phew - because on looking back at the actual photo of the Rifles Band from 2015, there are NO cord bosses visible anyway! (Nor for that matter music cases, but I'll drop that as it's Off Topic)

All I can see are the cloth embroidered Sphinx/EGYPT back badges - the 'Golden Thread' from the Gloucesters ... and I feel the same as Toby about 'Golden Threads'



As you say, LI had red felt backing visible through the badge voids all mounted on a similar cord boss.

Edit: on re-reading, I get your drift now. You weren't suggesting bosses were visible, but pointing out another difference between the LI Band and the RGJ Band (which latter The Rifles Band dress mainly follows) - sorry!

[leigh kitchen]

Originally Posted by Mike H

Wrong boss,in the wrong place. The LD band boss is a black oval. Mine came from Hobsons,still in the cellophane bag .
The ebay one appears to be LI minus backing,but its way to low .The LI is set almost at the top of the busby.

Was the LI one not a green oval boss?