RN Sennet Hat

[RCN]

Here are some shots of the interior & markings......

& I have included a couple of close up shots of where the chin stay would have originally been attached..

[Guzzman]

Hi Bryan

Great pictures! I have been waiting for them to appear but didn't like to press you over them! However, I must say that it was definitely worth the wait. Great hat and great photos. You have some excellent items in your collection.

Pete

[Guzzman]

Hi Bryan

Some further information concerning the sennet hat which you might find of interest.

1879 Uniform Regulations - "Hat. - Black or white according to climate; to be three inches high in the crown, four inches wide in the rim, as nearly straight as possible and seven inches across the crown; made of sennet, covered with brown holland painted black with a hat ribbon bearing the ship's name; and in warm climates the same hat uncovered, with the hat ribbon.
A chin stay to be attached to the hat."

The black hat was abolished in 1891. The white hat or 'straw' sennet, when out-of-shape, could be stiffened by being painted or moistened with a solution of gelatine, and set to dry on a hat-block. All Royal Navy ships carried supplies of gelatine and hat-blocks so that ratings hats could be regularly re-shaped. That is one of the reasons that ratings posing for photographs whilst aboard ship always seem to have pristine and perfectly shaped sennets!

However, for ratings serving ashore as part of landing parties or Naval Brigades it was a very different story. Sennets worn ashore often assumed a variety of shapes when exposed to the elements - brims could droop or be turned up or down according to the wearers whim. I will sort out some images of these 'lived-in' sennets and put them on the site.

Regards

Pete

[Guzzman]

Hi Bryan

As promised I have found some images of the various ways the sennet hat could be worn - especially when serving ashore with a landing party or Naval Brigade.

Apparently the sennet hat was the favourite choice of ratings on these occasions (it was only one of a ranges of headgear that could be used - in Abyssinia in the 1860s seamen wore white helmets with a puggaree), as it was light and cool, and shaded the eyes. However, George Crowe, Master-at-Arms in HMS Terrible (who served ashore during the Nile expedition of 1884-85 and during the Boer War) complained that the sennet hat wore out quickly ashore, unless painted, when it became heavy causing sore heads.

In an earlier reply I mentioned that the centre of straw hat manufacture (including sennet hats) in the UK was at Luton in Bedfordshire. I have recently discovered that there is one company in existence in Luton still manufacturing straw hats and who will make you a naval sennet hat to the original design issued to them by the Admiralty in the 19th century. However, I gather that these are rather expensive!

Now for the images: -
i). Upper yard men, HMS Phoebe, 1864
ii). Egypt, 1882
iii). An unusual one this - the Cairns Naval Brigade of the Queensland Defence Force, c.1890
iv). Mwele, East Africa, 1895
v). Boxer Rising, China, June 1900
vi). Naval Brigade at Tientsin, 1900

I hope the images are of some interest. And one again, I must say that you have acquired a really great example of the sennet hat.

Pete

[RCN]

Originally Posted by Guzzman

Hi Bryan

Some further information concerning the sennet hat which you might find of interest.

1879 Uniform Regulations - "Hat. - Black or white according to climate; to be three inches high in the crown, four inches wide in the rim, as nearly straight as possible and seven inches across the crown; made of sennet, covered with brown holland painted black with a hat ribbon bearing the ship's name; and in warm climates the same hat uncovered, with the hat ribbon.
A chin stay to be attached to the hat."

Pete

Thanks for the additional information Pete, I do appreciate that. I was unaware that the sennet hat also came in black. I have never seen a photo of a rating wearing a black sennet tho.

Here are the measurements of my sennet - pretty much right one with those you give above...

Across widest part of oval crown - 7 1/4" .
Across narrow part of oval crown - 6 1/4"

Height of crown - 3"

Width of brim - 4"

I have also seen cap ribbons with the ships name embroidered in yellow or black on a white background - do you think these might have been made for wear on the white sennet, possibly by boat's crews?

The width of the cap ribbon on my sennet is 1 1/2", wider than the normal
1 1/8" of the regular cap ribbons.

RCN Bryan

[RCN]

Thanks also for posting the photos of the naval brigades wearing the sennets Pete, I too have seen some of the photos published in the "Navy & Army Illustrated" of which I have a pretty good run. There are several in the various volumes that illustrate the ratings wearing the sennet in later Victorian campaigns. Those hats must have been quite useful in that intense sun & heat of Africa & Egypt.
The Egypt photo you have shown appears in "The War In the Soudan 1882-1898" (M. Barthorp) pg 35, captioned - "RN landing parties with 9 pounder guns from (Adm) Seymour's squadron ashore in Egypt. The officers are wearing helmets, the ratings sennet straws."

I have also seen v). Boxer Rising, China, June 1900
vi). Naval Brigade at Tientsin, 1900, but the other two are new to me.
I really like the Cairns Naval brigade photo.

I think the sennet would not have lasted a long time in campaign situations, so can understand why they were covered in gelatine - now this is new information to me also. I was unaware of how they were stiffened so thanks for revealing that also.

I am aware of MAA Crowe's book but do not have a copy.

Would you have any illustrations of the black sennet &/or have you ever seen or handled one?

RCN Bryan

[RCN]

Here is a scan of a large print that I have in my collection - of the Bombardment of Alexandria, 11 July 1882, the ratings are wearing the sennet hats but they are on board ship.

& another photo of ratings in one of the forts after the bombardment spiking the guns

RCN Bryan

[RCN]

& here is an engraving of ratings in the Crimea 1854-55 campaign...could they be wearing the black sennets?

& a print of ratings in the fort at Bomarsund in the Baltic campaign 1854-55.

& the third is a large photo I have of ERA's & Stoker ratings taken when they were drawn up for an inspection at HMS Asia (depot ship) circa 1890.

RCN Bryan

[RCN]

Originally Posted by Guzzman

I have recently discovered that there is one company in existence in Luton still manufacturing straw hats and who will make you a naval sennet hat to the original design issued to them by the Admiralty in the 19th century. However, I gather that these are rather expensive!

I hope the images are of some interest. And one again, I must say that you have acquired a really great example of the sennet hat.

Pete

Any idea what the cost of a modern sennet would be Pete?

Thanks very much, I am really pleased to have it in my collection. I never thought I would ever obtain one!

RCN B

[Charlie585]

--

[RCN]

Originally Posted by Charlie585

This is a great thread gents, very informative!

Somewhere in my family is a picture of my Great Grandfather in Naval uniform wearing one of these hats, I nmust track it down. I believe it was taken at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries.
His name was Thomas Murray, a giant of a man in his time at I believe 6' 7" with a shock of red hair and he was the bare fist boxing champion of the South China seas.

I would be interested to know the cost of having one of these hats made too?

Regards

Ry

Thanks Ry, pls post the photo of your gr grandfather,

RCN B

[Charlie585]

--

[RCN]

Here is another photo of RN ratings wearing sennet hats whilst on the East & West Africa M'Wele campaign inside the village.
Apparently from the cruiser St George.
RCN B

[Guzzman]

Hi Bryan

Many thanks for the illustrations of sennet hats. Some I have seen before but many are new to me. I was going to use your last image myself but I couldn't get it to reproduce very well!

Re black sennets. I have a few images of these and I will sort them out and put them on the site. There aren't many images of the black sennet and some of the best are of various Royal Princes dressed in naval uniform (I don't just mean sailor suits but correct replicas of naval ratings uniforms).

As to the unusual cap tallies. From the 1860s onwards cap tallies should all have been in the standard width gold-wire on black format with which we are familiar. I know that there are many cap tallies around which are in different colours, use different types of script and even have Union Jacks or White Ensigns at either end of the name. And I know that many of these tallies have names such as H.M.S. Dreadnought or H.M.S. Britannia on them but they are not real (or perhaps I should rather say official) cap tallies. It has been suggested that these tallies were used by ratings at ship launchings or on special occasions such as the Centenary of Trafalgar but there is no evidence to support this. And certainly by the 1860s, if not earlier, the habit of ship's captains dressing their boat's crews in uniforms of their own devising were long gone. Such behaviour was no longer tolerated by Their Lordships!

The National Maritime Museum has undertaken research into these non-standard tallies and has concluded that none of them are official RN issue. As such it does not hold any of them in its extensive tally collection. The conclusion it has reached, and it is one I agree with, is that some of these tallies may have originated as part of childrens sailor suits (which were very popular for boys and girls between the 1880s and 1914) and that some may have been cheap souvenirs sold at launchings and Fleet Reviews. A couple of years ago I found another possible source for some of these tallies when I came across a collection of coloured tallies, bearing names such as 'Victory' and 'Thetis', which were worn on the straw boaters of Oxford and Cambridge rowing clubs around 1900.

And finally, Bryan and Ry - if I haven't bored you to sleep already! - I will endeavour to contact the Luton manufacturers re the price of sennet hats. Unfortunately, with the onset of the Easter holidays it may be the end of next week before I get any reply from them.

Happy Easter to you both.

Pete

[RCN]

Originally Posted by Guzzman

Hi Bryan



Re black sennets. I have a few images of these and I will sort them out and put them on the site. There aren't many images of the black sennet and some of the best are of various Royal Princes dressed in naval uniform (I don't just mean sailor suits but correct replicas of naval ratings uniforms).
Happy Easter to you both.

Pete

Is this hat what you are referring to Pete?

The future King Edward VII & his brother Prince Alfred, later Duke Of Edinburgh photo taken in Aug 1853.
From - "The Victorian & Edwardian Navy"


& also best wishes for Easter also!