Badge talk

[2747andy]

Restrikes are rare!

Fakes and Copies are plentyful!

Andy

[BILL DUGGAN]

Hi Andy, I once read somewhere that members of The East Lancashire regiment took umbrage when as a militia battalian they was forced to wear a cap badge in reversed metals i.e. a brass badge with a white metal rose.

The white rose being the emblem of their (cricketing) enemy, Yorkshire.

Possible myth but it sounds very feasible to me, being a Lancastrian myself.

Bill

[2747andy]

Bill,
I think more "Myth" than "Fact"? As you can see the badge is found with QVC and short slider so was worn between 1898-1906 at least!

Andy

[davec2]

I have been collecting for less than 10 years, my first attempt ended in disaster when a couple of friends and forum members were able to identify the majority of my first collection as not genuine, I lost a lot of money, in excess of £3,000 in just a few weeks.

Had it not been for Malcolm and Andy I would have just cut my losses and called it a day ! I am now 68 and apart from being a Junior Leader in 1960 and then only for two years, I had no real interest in the Military until about 9 years ago.

Now I have several collections ( nothing special mind ) but I do have a few nice pieces, thanks to people like Andy, Malcolm, Keith, Wilf and a couple more members who I have constantly bombarded with questions about originality I have a healthy collection but in reality and apart from a few of my badges, the history of most of them is quite insignificant.

Members who are tetchy about other members asking whether this is original or that is genuine will, in my opinion have to learn to live with it, if the situation arises where the forum is for historical discussion only it will serve to be of little interest to me.

Having made these points, I have total admiration for those who do like to research the history of the regiments etc, etc, me ? I'm too thick to take most of it in as hard as I try , all I want are some guaranteed genuine badges.

Dave.

[ubervamp]

Hi all!
Interesting thread, and I'd like to comment on the issue at hand, and use my own experiences on the forum as a case in point.
I am still a "newbie", with little experience in spotting fakes/restrikes/duds, whatever, though I'm learning all the time.

When I started out I had a vague idea of amassing a 1914 infantry line-up similar to KLR's. My initial posting on the forum regarding this gave me a lot of helpful information to start me off, from several members.
I soon realised that there were loads of fakes around, so started posting pics on the forum asking members opinions. I have always gotten replies, and not just "genuine/fake", but members pointing out why they consider it to be such, which in turn has taught me a lot about what to look out for.
I cannot stress enough what that has meant to my collecting. Without that input and help from the forum and it's members, I would have given up before I started.
I made the choice to buy almost exclusively from forum members, because it is very important to me to know I have the real thing. This has lead to me, in a short amount of time, having amassed quite a good collection (check out my albums! ) of what I believe to be 100% genuine badges.

Now, knowing that I have this collection going, I look forward to learning more about the individual badges, variations, and above all: learn about the symbolism and designs. I intend to add a lot of information on my badges as I go on, and share what I learn.

There's a natural progression here for me, from procuring genuine items, to wanting to learn more about them individually.

A bit long winded this, but to sum up: without the initial and continuing questions regarding badges, and there authenticity, I would have given up, since I don't have the time or inclination, or money to spare on buying fake after fake.

And I look forward to further, (and more esoteric) discussions on various badges as I become more knowledgeable

Cheers

Colin

[ubervamp]

Originally Posted by davec2

I lost a lot of money, in excess of £3,000 in just a few weeks

OUCH!

[Rockape]

Bill raises a valid point in that there is a huge scope for discussion on many parts of our hobby. There are over 6,000 forum accounts created (I'm sure many are unused) of which only a small minority regularly participate in discussions. Our forum community is shaped by those who voice their opinions.

Often I see members suggesting what subjects they would like to be discussed only to get knocked-down by someone who does not want to see that type of discussion. The forum is a place where we can discuss anything about our hobby within the bounds of our own rules. If we only talk about certain subjects it then becomes a closed forum and benefits only the minority.

I say keep dialogue open and don't put someone down for daring to discuss something you personally don't want to discuss. Let's discuss diverse subjects, share experiences and enjoy the hobby. This will enhance the value of the forum for the majority. It might even give the chance for silent members to participate and also bring in a few more as well.

[Mike_2817]

I collect to a specific Corps that being the 'Army Ordnance Services' Who are they? you ask, well its a Generic term for the "Royal Army Ordnance Corps" and its predecessors, and in my case also thier successors the "Royal Logistic Corps" both Corps in which I served.

Now I not only collect to this 'Corps' but I also try to research its history, and that of its insignia as well, as a frame of lumps of metal means nothing to me, I also collect so called Copies, Repros & Forgeries as well as over the years I have in fact found that many of these types of badges were in fact worn! (yes and some not, and it is an area of interest in its self) so nothing is consigned to the scrap bin but is labeled accordingly.

While I am interested in them I do not collect complete uniforms or caps (due to space) or medals (other than family) to the Corps.

I know that more than a few collectors here specialise in more or less the same way

[jim a]

Without this forum I probably wouldn't have the interest in badges or the collection that I have... There are no collectors at all within easy access distance and badge/militaria shows are few and far between... My education capabilities would be next to zero without the forum.

I enjoy reading all comments on all the issues that are raised. My favorites are when the more experienced collectors take the time to explain what to look for in an original and provide a photo example. Also working back on the lineage of the badges ... which the albums give wonderful examples.

I have saved $1,000's over the years by researching badges on the Forum before I've bought them.... (I've also spent thousands over the years but with confidence that the vast majority of what I'm buying is original).

If you want new people entering the hobby there has to be a place where they can gain that confidence... this is it...

[davec2]

Quote [ Now I not only collect to this 'Corps' but I also try to research its history, and that of its insignia as well, as a frame of lumps of metal means nothing to me, ] unquote.

Although I fully understand the various reasons for collecting Militaria, I have always admitted to the fact that I am building an asset, mainly to help my wife get shot of me when the time arises, or the other way round if the worst scenario happens ?

I still want nice pieces and would never consider my badges solely as lumps of metal and I do want genuine badges, being an asset gives me the opportunity to decide when and how much I sell should I need an influx of cash ( a perfect example is that I am selling my bands mans Helmet Plates to raise a few quid ) , so you never know, one day, even before I pop my clogs, you might see a ' for sale ' sign for some/all of my collections , as I said, no history ???

Dave.

[Mike_2817]

Originally Posted by davec2

so you never know, one day, even before I pop my clogs, you might see a ' for sale ' sign for some/all of my collections , as I said, no history ???

Dave.

My post is my view - Each to thier own..

Militara collecting is like many other forms of collecting - Ultimate Recycling, which without interest many would not have survived.

[ubervamp]

Originally Posted by davec2

Quote [ Now I not only collect to this 'Corps' but I also try to research its history, and that of its insignia as well, as a frame of lumps of metal means nothing to me, ] unquote.

Although I fully understand the various reasons for collecting Militaria, I have always admitted to the fact that I am building an asset, mainly to help my wife get shot of me when the time arises, or the other way round if the worst scenario happens ?

I still want nice pieces and would never consider my badges solely as lumps of metal and I do want genuine badges, being an asset gives me the opportunity to decide when and how much I sell should I need an influx of cash ( a perfect example is that I am selling my bands mans Helmet Plates to raise a few quid ) , so you never know, one day, even before I pop my clogs, you might see a ' for sale ' sign for some/all of my collections , as I said, no history ???

Dave.

Dave, though I fully understand your point about badges being an investment and a monetary asset, there must be a reason why you collect badges and not, say, stamps or napkins? If your sole reason for collecting was monetary gain, why not invest in gold or market shares? There are easier ways to make a buck I know members collect for various reasons; some have military affiliations with certain regiments or corps. Others collect for historical reasons. Personally, I study the Great War and for me, collecting WW1 badges gives me something tangible, a historical artifact, something above and beyond the written word. I find an inherent value in these badges which transcends the pure monetary value of any given badge; they have a history and to me they represent (historical) values, custom, valour, personal sacrifice and regional and regimental pride. In my eyes, they are never lumps of metal. Like you, I am fastidious about authenticity. But I've discovered that as my collection has grown, I've become increasingly interested in the symbolism, the designs, the insignia and details behind the badges. I'm glad there is scope enough on the forum to be able to discuss all these aspects of badges, from authenticity issues to design particulars

It's all good

Memento mori

Colin

[mule-73k]

Anything which increases your knowledged is a good thing. There will always be 'takers' but thankfully there will always be 'givers' too. I think as I have been on this forum I have found fellow 'badgemen' who have a true love of the hobby, there are also thoes who's motives may at times be questionable.

For me there are many that I am delighted to hear what they have to say and I am greatfull to those who have helped me so far and I hope will continue to do so. I think that this forum is a must for the serious badge collector and the newbie.

Dave

[davec2]

Hi Colin,

Yes, Militaria does attract my attention more than say gold or napkins, I do get a certain amount of satisfaction when I acquire a badge I went after but at the same time, if I fail to get one, it's not the end of the world but I would also argue that Militaria can give a better return than a lot of other collectables, including precious metals ??

I also have a collection of Corps badges that was actually given to me, they mean quite a lot to me as well and I am on my second collection of Great War insignia having completed one collection which I then sold to purchase another group of badges, I think the Infantry of WWI is an ideal group of badges for anyone to start on, the learning curve, although quite sharp, helps new collectors to spot genuine badges, having said that, I have been pulled up twice recently for having the wrong badges ( I obviously didn't learn enough ).

Having no interest in the past is probably not entirely true, I have taken a fancy to the KRRC and Rifle Brigade ( as well as my London regiments ) and I bought several books so that I could unravel the puzzle of a very complicated regiment, needless to say, I was bored to death very quickly ??

So I will pull out of this one, as Mike says, each to their own and that is how it should be, also like Mike, it is only my opinion and I am not trying to influence people or justify my stance, I reiterate my statement that I admire those who do research and then impart that extra knowledge to others and I have always been grateful for all the help I have had in the past, keep up the good work gentlemen !!

Dave.