Need Help Identifying Uniform and Badge

[ValmaiOwens]

Hi, can anyone help identify these uniforms and badges. I believe they maybe New Zealand military, but unsure. The picture is not very clear and that's why I am having a devil of a job matching the collar and hat badges. The picture has been in my family since as long as I can remember, but I have no idea if these two men are related to me or army buddies of my late father.

I also have Scottish and English relatives who fought in both WW1 and WW2, but it seems the lemon squeezer was mostly worn by Kiwi military? Any help would be appreciated.

Cheers
Valmai

[Reg Mascot]

Looks like the 10th [North Otago] Rifles

[ValmaiOwens]

Thank you! That gives me a place to start. Would it be WW2?

[pukman]

Hi there,

It could well be Father and son. The soldier wearing the lemon squeezer hat is wearing 10th North Otago badges,and a ribbon bar which may relate to WW1.The badges are WW1 ,but were worn up to 1941,and also used by Home service in WW2(3rd Battalion Otago Regiment).The younger one is wearing a WW2 general service cap,and the(yellow?) patch is either a tank corp one or possibly army pay corp depending on what other patches he is wearing on his sleeve.If you can come up with a name let me know and I will do some further research for you.

Cheers Iain

[ValmaiOwens]

Hi Iain, I was wondering if it was father & son also or at least brothers? Someone else on another Forum suggested the uniform might be 1st or 2nd stage ANZAC, with the ribbon bar representing Pip, Squeak and Wilfred, and you are the 2nd person to suggest 10th North Otago, so I have been searching both WW1 and WW2 records. As for names, only these men's first names are written on the back of the photograph, Robert and Andrew. If they are relatives of mine then three main surnames would be Anderson, Owens or McKellar.

Interestingly, when I searched for my father's name on the NZ Nominal Rolls for WW2, I found him on the 3rd Roll 1 Jul 1940 - 31 Mar 1941. He is listed as Owens, Albert John Angus, Army No 13673, Rank Pte, Unit 30 Bn, Single, enlisted in Timaru. A little further down on this Roll appears a Robert Lawrence Owens, Army No 60111, PTe, Unit 30 Bn. He enlisted in Te Kopuru, Dargaville, Northland. Strange coincidence I thought, especially as Robert's brother was a Andrew Ernest Owens who appears on the 12th Nominal Roll, 1943. His army no was 111007, Rank Gnr (Gunner?) Unit N.Z.A. I've tried to connect these 2 men to my family, but no luck yet.

Either way, my father was shipped to Fiji with the rest of his Unit for training before being shipped out to North Africa. He never finished that training. Before enlisting he had nearly lost his life due to peritonitis. He underwent major surgery to repair his large bowel and part of his intestines. The heat and conditions in Fiji didn't agree with him and he came down with dysentry. It was so severe that the Army medically discharged him. Soon after that his unit was shipped out and most of the men were killed in action in North Africa. I have a picture of him and the rest of his buddies taken in Fiji, and nearly all the men are wearing the lemon squeezer hat. They are also wearing khaki shorts and long socks with their boots. If you care to see the picture let me know.

As for positively identifying these 2 men, I am not holding out much hope. It's a bit like finding a needle in a haystack.

Cheers
Valmai

[pukman]

Hello Valmai,

Very much a needle in the haystack situation. To qualify for the trio ,the soldier must have served in 1914.Being a Otago Infantry soldier he would have had a prefix of 8/ in his service number. In 1916 the prefix system was dropped .Given your parameters of Christian/surnames names, having gone through a database ,and looking at the possibilities ,I could not find any obvious candidates.

Back to the drawing board I'm afraid.

regards Iain

[ValmaiOwens]

Yes Iain, I believe you are right. It's back to the drawing for me. I am leaning more now to it being a friend of the family rather than a relative, but as I still am researching my family history and have yet to add more people to my ancestry tree, there is still hope I may stumble acroos these two men.

Thanks very much for looking into this for me. I appreciate it.

Cheers
Valmai