British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum
ebay
'Badges/Patches' 'Militaria, Badges'    Medals

 Military Badges

 All British  WW1  WW2 WW1   WW2

Go Back   British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum > Other Commonwealth Military Insignia > Indian Badges

 Other Pages: Galleries, Links etc.
Glossary  Books by Forum Members     Canadian Pre 1914    CEF    CEF Badge Inscriptions   Canadian post 1920     Canadian post 1953     British Cavalry Badges     Makers' Marks    Pipers' Badges  Canadian Cloth Titles  Books
 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-12-17, 06:18 PM
sapper533 sapper533 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 546
Default Indian Infantry badge queries

Hi folks
Sorting out som Infantry badges and realised I didn't know too much about the following badges.

1. 10th Baluch Regt, is this a cap badge or a collar badge?
2. A previous thread shows this as a post 1947 Frontier Force Regt badge. But I read that the 3rd/12th Frontier Force Regt was made Royal in 1935 could this be their badge?
3. 1st/7th Dogra Regiment is this a cap or collar badge?
4. Again a previous thread says that this is the badge worn post 1947 by the Frontier Force Rifles because it doesn't have a number on it but Regiments lost their numbers in 1945 so could this have been the new badge issued then?
5. 17th Dogras is this a cap or a collar badge?
Cheers
Sean
Attached Images
File Type: jpg image.jpg (28.0 KB, 41 views)
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-12-17, 09:33 PM
Wmr-RHB's Avatar
Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 729
Default

Re 2.

I doubt that because 3rd Bn (former 3rd Regiment of Sikh Infantry, PFF) never was connected to the PoW. Thus why should they switch to a badge with PoW feathers on becoming Royal?

The 1st Bn was PoWO since 1921.
__________________
Henk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-12-17, 02:48 PM
peter monahan peter monahan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,899
Default

The 12th FFR wote the bugle badge with a '12' in the center and 'F.F. Rifles' on a scroll flanking the numeral. In '47 it went to Pakistan as the FF Regiment. Given the uncertainty and a fair bit of evidence that IA units wore the pre-Independence badges for some time after Independence, in some cses at least, i think it unlikely that the 12th were authorized a new badge in '45.

Perhaps and officer's collar dog?
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14-12-17, 08:43 PM
sapper533 sapper533 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 546
Default

Any one else have any info on the other badges?
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 15-12-17, 01:31 PM
peter monahan peter monahan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,899
Default

I'd guess that most are cap badges, which are often smaller for IA units than British ones. Collars were not common to OR uniforms, as far as I've been able to tell, in either WW.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old Yesterday, 03:15 AM
Khyber Khyber is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 220
Default

To repeat above,
Most seem to be cap badges. Difficult to tell, but yes the IA badges tend to be a little smaller and often hard to say if cap/collar unless you have exact size for comparison.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM
sapper533 sapper533 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 546
Default

Thanks for that Khyber, can you confirm if the Frontier Force Rifles badge and the Frontier Force Regiment badge are post independence or not.
Cheers
Sean
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old Yesterday, 02:47 PM
peter monahan peter monahan is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,899
Default

Post Independence badges eventually came to use the Lions of Ashoka in place of the Crown, though some units did not make the change until at least 1950, when India became a Republic and almost certainly later than that in a few cases.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old Yesterday, 03:52 PM
Wmr-RHB's Avatar
Wmr-RHB Wmr-RHB is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Netherlands
Posts: 729
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by sapper533 View Post
.... are post independence or not.
Like Peter already points out, do not let you lure by the usage of "pre/post independence" into the assumption that the moment that India and Pakistan became independent is a very important moment in history for a badge collector. All the regiments continued to exist (however many companies/squadrons were transferred to other regiments), George V was still the sovereign of both countries. Regimental titles and badges were not changed in general. (The only change I know of is the badge of the 15th Punjab Regiment. The Sikh companies being exchanged for Moslim ones, the quoit in the badge was removed).

The changes come when both countries became republics. For India this is in 1950 and for Pakistan 1956. From those dates on you must be aware of title and badge changes. And please take into account the time needed for designing, approving, manufacturing and distributing them to the wearers.

In fact "post independence" in the environment here on the BBF is in most of the cases a misnomer that creates a lot of confusion.
__________________
Henk
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old Yesterday, 04:25 PM
Khyber Khyber is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 220
Default

Agree with Peter on the Frontier Force badge. The immediate (5-10 yr) post-Independence period is a bit of a grey area. Some or probably most of the Indian/Pakistan regiments seem to have continued with the earlier British-era badges and in many cases only the crown/lion/PoW plumes were substituted by the Lions of Ashoka/cresent.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old Today, 09:53 PM
jamesmilitaria jamesmilitaria is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Lancashire, England
Posts: 461
Default

My two pence worth.

1 - Beret badge of the Baluch Regiment 1945 - 56. The pagri badge was much taller and officers wore a cord boss with a white metal X.

2 - 13th Frontier Force beret regiment - I can't remember which battalion wore this version but I think it is a late/post war introduction.

3 - 17th Dogra. Hat badge worn by one or more of the battalions possibly on the side cap.

4 - Post war 13th Frontier force beret badge

5 - 17th Dogra beret badge.

Few Indian Army regiments had collar badges except officers on service dress and mess kit and even then only some. None of these are officers badges. Some regiments did not wear badges on their pagri. This changed when the GS beret - often cotton, came into use towards the end of the war and post war.

I would say that all of these badges are late or post war.

As I said just my two pence worth.

James
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old Today, 10:05 PM
sapper533 sapper533 is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: ATHENS GREECE
Posts: 546
Default

James you're a star mate, that's reAlly helpful
Merry Christmas
Sean
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:34 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.