Submarine Pipers, Lancashire Artillery Volunteers

[Peter Brydon]

I recently acquired a most interesting photo archive on a CD for 103rd Regiment RA (V) (Lancashire Artillery Volunteers ).

I noticed in one photo that 3 Pipers of the Regiments Pipes and Drums at camp at Penally (With thanks to Chris Vere who took the original photo and allowing me to use the attached photo ) appear to be wearing RN submarine qualification badges.

With thanks to Chris Vere and Fred Doyle ( both former officers of 103 Regiment ) I have managed to find out a little more about the wearing of the badge. This is what Fred has told me:

As a very young subaltern I was appointed "Band President" of the Liverpool Irish P&D. (I'd upset the 2i/c - it wasn't difficult). A very young 2Lt in charge of 30-odd hairy old soldiers some of whom had landed and fought on Juno Beach. That's when I started to go grey. As Chris has said, pipers will be pipers. I learnt that and the Lord only knows how many times the wool was pulled over my eyes.

In effect I was the last president of the established P&D which disbanded on 31 Mar 67. I nevertheless continued to keep a keen interest in its "Crawford" tartan successors, now an unestablished band. Most of its soldiers I knew. I raised the wearing of the submariners' badge with both the Pipe Major and the Drum Major.
One of them assured me it was authorised. The other told me that the badges had been presented unofficially as "souvenirs" with no authority to wear them, and they had not been told to remove them. I can't recall which of them said what. As the band were then "unofficial" their uniforms were not supplied by MOD but had been purchased by the Hon Col, Sir Douglas Crawford, that's probably the reason they got away with it.

I already had a photo ( second picture ) of the Pipes and Drums of the Regiment beating retreat at HMS Dolphin the Submarine Depot in 1973.

I wonder if members of the Pipes and Drums were presented with the Submariners badges to commemorate the occasion ?

Another example of the sort of thing that makes our interest so fascinating.

P.B.

[leigh kitchen]

I must admit "submarine pipers" conjured up an image of pipe laying as in gas pipes, water pipes etc but then I realised we were talking artillery rather than engineers.
Only one man wears the submariners badge in the photos?
Is there any chance that wearing the badges was some kind of joke?

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Leigh,

There are 3 Pipers in the photo wearing the submariners badge ( Front two and the one at the rear ) and I dont think it is a joke.

Peter

[David Tremain]

Like Leigh I thought that submarine pipers were using their bagpipes as snorkels!

David

[leigh kitchen]

Is the sub badge wearing simply down to the pipes having been on some kind of exercise with or showing hospitality to sub sea surface matelots?
It seems the sort of thing that could happen - a good training exercise / session on the beer & badges, hackles and the like get presented?

[Peter Brydon]

Leigh,

As it says in my original post, the Pipes and Drums Beat Retreat at HMS Dolphin ( The submarine Depot ) in 1973 and they might well have been presented with Submariners badges to commemorate the occasion but that is just a possibility and not something I have evidence of.

Peter

[leigh kitchen]

Yes, that could be it, couldn't it - unofficial "presentations" or souvenirs?
Can't help but suspect a session in a NAAFI or pub was involved (You're my best mate you are).
Not quite the same as paras wearing the wings of one of the foreign nations they've jumped with.
Again, not " the same" but organisations which are'nt regular military can sometimes get away with wearing all manner of mates insignia eg UNIPTF in BiH wandered around resplendent in all manner of foreign bling.
I favoured the French Gendarmes badge myself as it didn't feature a national flag but did actually show the IPTF shield and thereby the organisation you belonged to, something that issue insignia didn't.
Anyway, I digress.......

[eric fawcett]

to allay any theories about the submariners crossed dolphins badges worn by the pipes and Drums of 103 regt pipes and Drums are as follows i am Eric Fawcett ex Drum Major of said band at the time
we were at camp with a Hospital Regiment at Gosport as the the Regt was in Germany we were training to perform at the Larkhill Artillery Tattoo
whilst in portsmouth we were asked by the RN to do some performances for them one being performing a beat retreat performance on the Quarter deck of HMS DOLPHIN we were the first Army Band do do so and were treated very well by the Navy
i still have my Dolphin Badge The Pipe Major Joe Massey and had to dive for our badges which was a half Glass of spirits with the badge at the bottom of the glass and the drink had to be downed in one go still remember trying not to throw up but came up within my teeth as did Joe this was performed in the Cheifs and P,O s mess as with the remainder of the band in their mess
now to clear up about the wearing of the Badge it was given as Honory Submariners but not as any official wearing of them hope this clears things up a bit

[leigh kitchen]

Excellent - a well earned badge.

[Paul Spellman]

So this isn't their 4Tonner then
Paul

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Eric,

Hope you are well. That helps clear the mystery.

Regards

Peter

[Alex Rice]

Very interesting story, thanks.

[eric fawcett]

having trouble bringing pics uo
a block in the left hand corner telling me to re register any one else with this problem and how to get rid of it thanks