early Motto

[Robthereiver]

Griff

It was on a 17L Valise, not Shabraque I've seen this device. As in on the circular ends thereof.
I think there is an image in one of Ffrench-Blakes publications?

Rob

[GriffMJ]

Rob/Stephen

Taking a closer look at the bell top shako motto of the 17LD..... is it the same I wonder? Its certainly the same size by the looks of it?

[Robthereiver]

Griff

Good effort, but the image really isn't clear enough IMO to make any judgement or draw any sort of comparison.

I'd go so far as it could be, but there again it could be a number of things

Rob

Originally Posted by GriffMJ

Rob/Stephen

Taking a closer look at the bell top shako motto of the 17LD..... is it the same I wonder? Its certainly the same size by the looks of it?

[GriffMJ]

Stephen/Rob

Here we go.... a better example.... Officer Bell Top Shako (1860s?), the motto is sitting on a blue "round" on the beaver skin. You will also notice the holes for the loops in the blue cloth

[1stTankie]

This is the officers' undress sabretache badge. Although it is not hallmarked I feel certain it is silver. I took it to the museum of the QRL and compared it to the one shown on the shako by Griff and also to the one shown on the saddle role. It is remarkably similar if not identical.

Best wishes

Gordon

[GriffMJ]

There we go..... Gordon has a "complete"

Gordon.... I feel sure that these were multi purpose.... but different fixings applied and thinner gauge metal etc.

[1stTankie]

Hi Griff

That could well be the case but in the absence of the opportunity to see the fittings on the other two, i.e. the Shako and the saddle roll/valise, I can't be certain.
In the meantime here is a die cast version of a possible sabretache/pouch badge. I don't think this is "officer quality" but am not sure how prevalent they were in the ranks.

Best wishes

Gordon

[Robthereiver]

Hello Gordon

You are spoiling us

Apparently the same device was worn for Officers Cap, Sabretache and Valise. I can't comment on Shako as unsure. The main difference appears to be the fixings. Screw threads for Lance Cap and sabretache, x4 pins for Valise?

I do like your cast example, I would suggest its 'in theatre' made, but well made there is quality of workmanship evident. Have you tested it for Silver?
I'd suggest this is an Officers foreign service replacement for Cap or Sabretache?

Rob

PS. Griff sorry not ignoring you just busy working.

Originally Posted by 1stTankie

Hi Griff

That could well be the case but in the absence of the opportunity to see the fittings on the other two, i.e. the Shako and the saddle roll/valise, I can't be certain.
In the meantime here is a die cast version of a possible sabretache/pouch badge. I don't think this is "officer quality" but am not sure how prevalent they were in the ranks.

Best wishes

Gordon

[3748 Hussar]

Hi Steve,

Time to add my tuppance worth; I believe I have a die struck example as shown in this this thread. Off the top of my head it has 8 or more fixings. Unfortunately I am way till the middle end of November so can't Post an image.
I was told by a collector many years ago these was copied. Probably in the
80's will try and get some more info
Steve out of interest!!!! What are the dimensions?
Regards
3748 Hussar

Originally Posted by yorkstone

A early white metal Motto to get your thinking process in to, I have been advised it is off a Bell Top Shako.

Though notice the adaptations done to the rear replaced or re affixed screw fitting behind the Skull, and a hinge type fitting on one side of the bones.

regards

Stephen

Collecting to Stone Staffordshire and surrounding Towns and Villages. In particular the whereabouts of my Great Uncles medals

14 Star Trio 1st Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment to 9605 Pte H Taylor known to be serving with A Coy 1915

also his brother location of his British War and Victory to 12125 Pte W.J Taylor serving with 5th Batt R.F. 1915. I have his 14/15 Star.

[yorkstone]

Re My Motto,

I served with the 4th/7th RDG back in the 80's and many items were made and adapted under regimental auspices.

I saw numerous things adapted for our Tercentenary paraded older uniforms were adapted to previous styles one such thing was a presentation pillow that disappeared after the presentation to the Col in Chief of her new broach and It later turned up under a Troopers head on Saltau.

Other items were adapted during my time for strange things in the officers and Sgt Mess the Band etc they had little respect at times for old items shall we say I saw the remains of burnt Victorian and 20th century uniforms whilst based at Detmold. I spoke to a Store man who was told to burn them and get them off the shelf.

It could be that my Motto was used for many unusual things after it was adapted the hinge pin is very well fitted not that of Copy but that of a change of use it had a purpose.

I will cherish this item who knows what a new photographs may show.

Thank you all for your contributions to this thread and personal PM's

Stephen

Collecting to Stone Staffordshire and surrounding Towns and Villages. In particular the whereabouts of my Great Uncles medals

14 Star Trio 1st Battalion North Staffordshire Regiment to 9605 Pte H Taylor known to be serving with A Coy 1915

also his brother location of his British War and Victory to 12125 Pte W.J Taylor serving with 5th Batt R.F. 1915. I have his 14/15 Star.

[davec2]

Have you seen all the aggro you've caused Stephen ?

You had better bring it along next week and I will take it off your hands to use as spares !!

Dave.

[Peter Brydon]

Whilst not having a particular interest in this regiment, earlier whilst looking for a particular badge in old Crown Imperial magazines, I came across an article by Walter Lambert in Edition 81, Winter 1995 entitled "Cavalry Arm Badges", this particular article dealing with the Sergeants Arm Motto of the 17th and 17/21st Lancers.

The article seems to deal with the subject in some detail and may be of interest to those with an interest in the regiment(s).

P.B.

[GriffMJ]

Peter

I have the article, Walter describes a large hallmarked "deaths head" (no OR GLORY scroll) as an early official arm badge from Ordnance that was never worn as such?

[Robthereiver]

Griff

Walter Lamberts description of this 'large deaths head' being the ADC seal pattern arm badge, is a point of controversy, and is actually quite a well known one.
It is quite well discussed in the 17L section of Linaker & Dines Book.

Rob

[3748 Hussar]

Here you go , Totally got the fixings mixed up with the death's head badge . Both Examples Die struck . Had some TLC in the past . Silver
Stephen can you PM the Dimensions of your example .

Regards

Tony c

Originally Posted by 3748 Hussar

Hi Steve,

Time to add my tuppance worth; I believe I have a die struck example as shown in this this thread. Off the top of my head it has 8 or more fixings. Unfortunately I am way till the middle end of November so can't Post an image.
I was told by a collector many years ago these was copied. Probably in the
80's will try and get some more info
Steve out of interest!!!! What are the dimensions?
Regards
3748 Hussar