RAF buttons

[GTB]

A representative selection of RAF buttons. The current thread concerning KC a/a cap badge prompted me to have a look-see but nothing doing. Incidentally, the KC a/a buttons are 'Firmin. London' for the large, and 'Gaunt. London' for the small. And thge monogrammed button is, of course, ascribed to Royal Aircraft Factory.

GTB

[Cribyn]

Hello GTB

A very nice selection of buttons.

I do believe though that the 'RAF' button is actually a Royal Air Force Mess Waiter's button. There has been mention of this on the Forum before I think and someone provided a link which mentioned the appropriate regulations which specified this button as RAF mess waiter.

I'm not sure if this is the link supplied but this site does mention these buttons - http://www.network54.com/Forum/18074...y%27s+Uniform-

Copying part of the text it reads as follows -

"Air Ministry Order 416 of 1921 describes these buttons and authorises them as part of the uniform for Mess Butlers and Mess Waiters........

Summary of the uniforms in the AMO:

Mess Butler:
Day wear: Dark blue lounge suit of civilian pattern, Evening Wear: Dark blue evening suit, civilian model: coat and waistcoat to be fitted with brass buttons with raised initials "R.A.F."

Mess Waiter:
Day Wear: Blue and white striped jean jacket, lounge jacket model and blue and white striped jean waistcoat both with brass buttons with raised initials "R.A.F."

Evening Wear: Dark blue evening coat and trousers (civilian model); blue and white waistcoat (as for day wear): coat and waistcoat to be fitted with brass buttons with raised initials "R.A.F." ".

This does seem to be confirmation that these 'RAF' buttons are Royal Air Force and not Royal Aircraft Factory, Royal Armaments Factory and so on.

Roger

[GTB]

Thanks for that. Roger. I now recall - my memory keeps playing up when I don't have notes around!

I recall reading about the Factory theory from a respected source but again, for the lifo of me I can't remember who or where. I must say, though, that I would have expected the Royal Air Force to have come up with something better for mess wear.

GTB

[Cribyn]

Hello GTB

I do agree that the buttons are rather uninspiring! When you see some of the designs that the army regiments used for their mess waiter's buttons this hardly compares - a simple 'RAF' didn't require much imagination or thought did it!

Did they not even think of confusion between them and the old Royal Aircraft Factory, although by the time these buttons were introduced it had become the Royal Aircraft Establishment, so I suppose it wasn't an issue.

Roger

[Alex Rice]

Are the rope-bordered buttons early (1918 vintage) RAF buttons? Were these the same as the RNAS? I have a couple of old leather buttons like this in my collection.
Cheers,
Alex

[GTB]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

Are the rope-bordered buttons early (1918 vintage) RAF buttons? Were these the same as the RNAS? I have a couple of old leather buttons like this in my collection.
Cheers,
Alex

Alex,
You beat me to the post as I was just about to make a similar query. Perhaps some member may have documentation concerning description and date of wear of (a) RNAS buttons; (b) early RAF buttons; (c) Fleet Air Arm (WW2).

Interesting that you mention leather buttons. I would ascribe these to Great War period, similar to the leather Royal Arms type.

GTB