FiFe & Forfar Yeomanry c1914

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by grey_green_acorn

I thought that mounted troops wound their puttees from the top down tied off at the ankle?

Tim

Tim.

You're right. They are wound from the bottom whilst horse mounted would have been wound from the top.

here is a good photo of them in 1915 in Skegness - no horses but still have the bandoliers and at least one has horse-wound puttees.
http://thaneofife.org.uk/ffy-ww1.html

As for pocket pleats the 1915 economy jackets did not have them but I am not sure of the date for their return so it does not help date it that much. The collar badges are not the norm but then Yeomanry did their own thing and if the 2 men had a photo done then they may have wanted to look their best for the photo. They could be late war tunics or old stock. The absence of medal ribbons does suggest pre 1919/20.

Looking at the photo close up they do not have any horse-accoutrements but as the 14th Bn was in Egypt and Palestine in 1917-18 and they are not dressed for the Middle East, then chances are they are:

1. From the other F&F Bn in UK the 2/1.
2. UK based reinforcements in the 3/1.

http://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/army/...rfar-yeomanry/1.

It's also possible that the photo dates from May 18 when the Bn were back in France but by then as we saw in earlier posts they were badged BW.

My money is on the Reserve Bn post 1916 when they stopped trg for the Yeomanry role.

[Advsmt]

On balance I think you are right. I have seen several photos of the reserve post 1916 and they are wearing a complete range of of uniforms, badges and accoutrements. I have several photos of my great uncle, Scottish Horse, taken at Skegness and Alford in 1915 prior to heading off to Gallipoli. He is wearing his full yeomanry rig in all the photos, as of course, they fully expected to be going to France. Little did he know what was around the corner! A long way from his farm in rural Forfarshire. He ended up in the 13th. His younger brother was a F&F/14th man killed at Moislains. Unfortunately I don't have photos of him.

Bryan

[GTB]

A fascinating and very well researched thread. Prompted me to take a closer look at my own material.
Before going further, I believe the clincher lies in the photo of the Vol officer wearing what could be the ubiquitous 'brass' badge. It is true that officers wouldn't normally wear slidered badges but Vols are a different kettle of fish. Having said that, I have a beautiful specimen of the 'brass' badge, slidered, and in unused condition, so much so that the GILDING METAL which it actually is, appears at the back of badge in its coppery finish. The slider is original, brass, crimped.
As for the face, it actually appears to be of a light brass-bronze hue so I am wondering if this specimen could be an officers purchase!
Efforts to scan have all resulted in blurred images, I'm afraid.
Can't recall provenance of badge.
GTB

[Rockape]

GTB,

I also find this thread fascinating.

Originally Posted by Alan O

My money is on the Reserve Bn post 1916 when they stopped trg for the Yeomanry role.

My guess is slightly different in that 2/1 F&FY was converted to cyclists and served in UK / Ireland and they would have been issued infantry uniforms for that role.

[Alan O]

Good point and the bandoliers tie up with cyclist duties.

[Alan O]

Originally Posted by 2747andy

Griff,
not sure if you have understood the point which I have been trying to make? Despite what it says in Wilkinson, Gaylor and K&K, I believe the Brass badge was only worn from 1917-19 by the 14th (Fife and Forfar Yeomanry) Bn of the Black Watch, hence the reason for it being a scarce badge. Although I may be wrong?

Andy

A bit more detail:

http://www.seaboardhistory.com/seabo...mber-them-ww1/

If you search for Finlay Macleod you will see him dressed as a F&F yeoman in 1916 with a white metal badge on a peaked cap. He is shown in the obligatory new recruit in uniform with a couple of other Yeomen and also in a group photo - all in w/m thane badges.

The Fife and Forfar yeomanry were in the Middle East on New Year's Day 1917 when they were 'interred for the duration' as the regimental history calls it https://ia801407.us.archive.org/7/it...00ogiluoft.pdf

This book (note the F&F and the BW badge on its cover) written in 1921 records that the battalion became the 14th Battalion (Fife and Forfar Yeomanry) the Black Watch and were re-kitted when they left for France in 1917. Interestingly they did not receive Black Watch kilts until 16 August 1918 which helps dates period photos. Unfortunately it does not record when the Scottish Bonnets were issued.

However in every photo of the 14th Bn BW they are wearing bonnets and Black Watch hackles. No cap badges are evident at all. As they were no longer the Yeomanry but a Battalion of the Black Watch wearing BW uniforms and tartan, the brass badge is unlikely to be anything to do with the 14th Battalion the BW at all.

[GriffMJ]

Other Ranks pictured in 1908.

* Note the Trooper in Field service dress with Brass Thane, brass buttons and white metal collar badges.

[Alan O]

Griff

Thanks. So an Imperial Yeomanry era badge. Nice photo and thanks again for sharing it.

Alan

[Luke H]

Great pic thanks for sharing Griff. Very difficult to make out but at least 3 of the troopers appear to have badges where the horses have defined necks.

Perhaps they’re the variety of badge where there’s the void between the reins and neck?

Cheers,

Luke

[GriffMJ]

Just to illustrate the 14th Btn BW...

[Alan O]

And just to provide a little more evidence

https://livesofthefirstworldwar.org/lifestory/3322350

Both officers are F&FY wearing Black Watch Tams with the hackle. No badge is worn.

The Football even says 14th Bn so there is no doubt who they are!

[CAM]

Fantastic thread.

Chris

[GriffMJ]

Just to add..

The brass Thane was worn in Egypt 1916/17 before the Allenby order to form the 74th Yeo Div.


Egypt & Palestine 1917/18
14th (Fife and Forfar Yeomanry) Btn, The Black Watch


France & Flanders 1918
14th (Fife and Forfar Yeomanry) Btn, The Black Watch.

[Alan O]

Griff

Where is the evidence for the badge being worn in 1916?

Alan

[GriffMJ]

Originally Posted by Alan O

Griff

Where is the evidence for the badge being worn in 1916?

Alan

Hi Alan

Here are the FFY Cooks (pre March 1917), somewhere in Egypt/Palestine, from the FFY's book on the 14th Btn. The Thane is worn in the Forage caps..... I have a better pic somewhere (of the same). I have also added a 14th Btn FFY L/Cpl.

All of the Yeomanry Regiments posted to the Gallip', Egypt/Palestine wore their own cap badge (Forage caps) up until Allenby created the 74th Yeo Div. Not many wore a metal badge in the Wolsey helmet... but I do have pics of the LSH & Kent Yeo with their badge in the helmet.