WRNS blue petty officer badges worn on Topees (sun helmets)?

[sailorbear]

Originally Posted by Alex Rice

Hi Antrim82
Thanks very much for the answer. Do you have any idea why they then introduced the bi-metal one, and when that came in was the blue one phased out?
Cheers,
Alex

Hi there, I think you are labouring under a bit of a misapprehension here! and believe what is trying to be said is that the blue painted badges were worn by ratings in between leading rate and confirmed petty officer. ratings below that rate, who would normally wear square rig (jumper, coller, white front, bell bottoms, round sailors cap with cap tally) when in tropical rig (shorts, white front and sun helmet) would wear a cap tally on the helmet, once they became rated for Petty Officer ( and went into fore and aft rig - tunic with buttons and peaked cap) they would wear the blue painted badge on the helmet until confirmed when they would wear a bi metal one. they would most likely have been phased out when the sun helmet was phased out for tropical rig(?) I think it basically worked the same way as ratings not dressed as seamen and articifer trainees wearing a peaked cap with a red on blue embroidered cap badge. At least thats how I understand it?

Regards

Tony

[Mike B]

Thanks Phil for starting this post following our conversation, I have learned a great deal from it. It is good that recent postings have kept the subject alive in such an authoritative manner. Regards Mike

[Alex Rice]

Hi Tony
Thanks for clarifying that for me, I must be a bit slow or something
Cheers,
Alex

[Antrim82]

Some final notes which I hope may clarify what I believe to be the situation on the wearing of Sun Helmets and blue PO's badges.

In 1921 as a result of the removal of the Sennet hat (a.k.a. the ‘Straw’ or Donkey’s Breakfast’) wearing of Sun helmets was extended from Officers and CPO’s to PO’s and Junior Ratings in class II (Square rig) and class III (Fore and Aft rig) uniforms. It was for wear at Senior Officers discretion in hot weather stations in lieu of the standard sailors cap or peaked cap with white cap cover. In practice this was usually when ashore or in boats.

It was not part of the ratings compulsory Kit and Sun Helmets and Calico cases were to be supplied as required from Victualling Yards for individual issue. Design was to be of the “new approved pattern” and it was to be worn without Puggaree or badge except for ‘Men dressed as Seamen” (Class II uniform) who were to wear the cap tally. (Officers and CPO’s wore the helmet with a Puggaree the top fold of which was in Navy Blue.)

In early 1939 AFO1266/39 introduced the three metal sun helmet badges CPO (pattern 53), PO (Pattern 54), and the blue painted PO style badge for ‘Men not dressed as Seamen’ (pattern 55). It also appears that by this time the Puggaree had been introduced for wear by all men ‘not dressed as seamen’.

With the Second World War all items of full dress including the white drill suit worn in the tropics were suspended for the duration and therefore the main need for the Sun helmets was removed. Sun Helmet badges are still in the Fleet issuing prices for February 1944, but then so are gold wire badges also withdrawn for the duration. By 1944 most personnel overseas in tropical climates were wearing Khaki working uniforms. The first reference to their use as beret badges is in AFO 2425/ 44 where the CPO and PO’s Sun Helmet badges are authorized for use on the newly introduced beret for Naval Air Crews as part of No 3A dress. Junior rates are instructed to wear the letters HMS taken from the cap tally and there is no mention of the blue painted class III badge.

By 1948 when the White Drill suits were restored the CPO’s and PO’s badges had been renamed as Beret Badges and the pattern numbers changed as follows

CPO (pattern 53) was now described as Chief Petty Officer N.9
PO's (Pattern 54) was now described as Petty Officer, confirmed N10

The blue badge had disappeared along with the sun helmet itself.

Today’s CPO and PO’s metal beret badges are therefore simply the modern versions of the old Sun Helmet badges and the curiously shaped flat rear blade fixings are presumably a legacy of the requirement to be able to fix the badge in the folds of the Puggaree.

One other note of clarification regarding wear of the blue painted badge is that it would not be worn by non confirmed PO’s in the Seamen Branches (ie those branches wearing class II Square Rig). At this time PO’s in these branches did not adopt Fore and Aft rig until after they were confirmed usually 1 year after promotion. Sorry if my initial post gave the wrong impression.

[Alex Rice]

Hi Antrim82
Thanks for the extra info, that's great to know.
Cheers,
Alex