Help identifying gunnery branch badges

[Nozzer]

Hi,

I was hoping that someone could tell me when and for what these two badges where made?

Thanks, Andy

[Kbak]

Looking at it I think its post war late 40's early 50's the first badge looks like a 2star 2nd class part II and the A stands for Navy Airmen.

Hope that helps, I might be wrong but i have seen one like that before

Kbak

[Nozzer]

Originally Posted by Kbak

Looking at it I think its post war late 40's early 50's the first badge looks like a 2star 2nd class part II and the A stands for Navy Airmen.

Hope that helps, I might be wrong but i have seen one like that before

Kbak

Thanks for the reply. I didn't explain myself very well (I'm good at that ). It's not what they are, it is there construction and what they where worn on. Any ideas?

Andy

[elgee45]

I think they're post-war, Andy. The pre- and WWII versions I've seen in photographs have a single horizontal gun barrel.

Not sure about the "A" . . . anti-aircraft perhaps.

It's definitely not FAA - Naval Airmen wore a badge with a stylized aeroplane on it. In which case the "A" would have been for air-frame mechanic . . . which yours ain't.

Sorry I can't help more.

Lawrence

[DAVID B HOWELL]

Hi Andy

They are 1940's issue and are Australian They were worn on the same uniform as Royal Navy ratings They also come in Blue on White tropical issue.

David

[royston]

Hi

Star above Star below and A. Anti Aircraft Rating 1st class 1939-48, Anti Aircraft Rating 2nd class 1948 - 51.

Star above and star below. A variety of sub gunnery lists from 1903 - 48, but most probably Director Layer if 2WW.

The badges may be Australian, but were worn by RN personnel. The A badge is similar in construction to RN. The 2 star badge is slightly different.

Sourse. The Badges and Insignia of the British Armed Services.

John

[royston]

Hi

Further to last. Looking at the badges again. I would say that they are definitely Commonwealth, therefore Australian sounds good to me. But the branches were as RN.

John

[Nozzer]

Hi,

thanks for the replies.

If you look at the material that they are embroidered into the left hand one is done on a cotton type of material and the right hand one is done not unlike BEVO (I thinks that's what they call it ). All the other ones that I have are embroidered into wool/serge. I don't believe that these badge were made to go on No. 2 uniform, they just wouldn't look right. Any Idea's?

Andy

[RBJ MIlitaria]

As david stated post WW2 Australian

[Antrim82]

Andy,
Woven badges were issued by the Royal Navy in WWII in both Red on Blue and Blue on White versions and were used in place of the embroidered versions. I don't have the exact date of introduction to hand but they do appear in the 'Clothing, Soap, and Tobacco, issuing Prices' during May 1941,

These clearly show examples of two identical pattern numbers for a particular badge the second of which is prefixed "X". In the footer these are explained as "The badges with the letter "X" prefixed to the pattern number , eg. X.1a are woven badges."

In this respect your two badges are probably

X.103A Gunners Mate - Other ratings red price 3d
X.159A Anti Aircraft Rating 1st class - Other ratings price 4d

The Australians certainly did issue woven badges in both red and blue versions post war, but the ones I have in blue on red are on a lighter blue material and the stars in particular are of a much simplified design. This does not exclude them using the RN or locally produced versions of the WWII designs as well as they closely followed RN practice at this time.

Hope this helps.

[Antrim82]

Further to my last post research has identified that the RAN did introduce woven badges by Commonwealth Naval Order 638, dated 5th December 1944. The reason given was "In order to overcome supply difficulties, it has been decided that woven badges will be supplied in future as a wartime substitute for certain normal worsted-type badges". The CNO listed 39 pattern numbers which were affected and the new badges were to be prefixed by X exactly the same as in the Royal Navy.

Patterns X.103A Gunners Mate - Other ratings red and X.159A Anti Aircraft Rating 1st class were not however in the list of badges to be introduced. It is possible the list was expanded at a later date but I have not yet found this information. This would tend to further suggest your badges are of Royal Naval origin.

Hope this is of assistance