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#1
27-09-13, 10:14 AM
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Fake shoulder titles
Unless someone can produce ACI instructions that as a wartime economy measure shoulder titles were issued in brass which had the malleability of rubber, I have to conclude that there are a lot of fake shoulder titles doing the rounds.
I have been caught several times recently whilst buying on Ebay or at a militaria fair. At first glance the shoulder titles look to be good but on closer inspection there is something not quite right about them. The letters appear to be too flat, the colour/patina appears to be too new and most of all they will bend with very little pressure. So far I have bought RDF, NgrenadeF, Middlesex and Buffs shoulder titles and they have all been wrong and I am certain that there are others out there. My photographs show a fake Middlesex and a right one together for comparison. The fake is at the top in all three pictures. Last edited by High Wood; 27-09-13 at 02:01 PM. 
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#2
27-09-13, 10:22 AM
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You will also notice that the letters do not have the same spacing between them which I think is significant and not just a manufacturer's variation
However, the biggest difference is in how pliable the fake shouder titles are. Generally if I want to straighten a slightly distorted shoulder title I will put it in the jaws of a small vice which I gently close. The fake shoulder titles can be bent and straightened with very little finger pressure as in these pictures. Please note that no shoulder titles were harmed during the making of this thread. Last edited by High Wood; 27-09-13 at 10:41 AM.
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#3
27-09-13, 10:39 AM
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Quote:
Nice piece of work done there. I wonder what they will start making fakes of next....
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#5
27-09-13, 10:54 AM
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If only. We have two cats and a dog and they are all very fussy about what they eat. The RDF one that I bought on Ebay was returned and the money was refunded with no fuss. He was very quick to leave positive feedback for the transaction. He still has every imaginable shoulder title for sale. The other three I am stuck with as they were bought at militaria fairs or car boot sales.
Often dealers have shoulder titles on boards which you can look at but they are often not keen on you removing them from the boards for closer inspection as they are low value items. Might be different if you were spending £30-50. My point is that if you are not expecting low value items to be copied you tend not to examine them carefully until you have realised that you have sold a pup once too often. I would like to be charitable and believe that these were made for a film companies' remake of Journey's end but they are out and out fakes. Caveat emptor.
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#7
27-09-13, 10:58 AM
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Simon,
to be completely honest I think you have bent some perfectly good shoulder titles? Brass ages and matures in different ways dependent on the conditions it has endured! Cap badges and cloth insignia have been copied to death, but reproductions of other items of Military Insignia has yet to be subjected to anyway near as much "Mass Faking"! I'd be happy to buy/sell the titles you show as genuine! Andy Last edited by 2747andy; 27-09-13 at 11:10 AM.
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#8
27-09-13, 11:13 AM
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But the point is they have straightened out again as good as new which you cannot do with a genuine great war example. It is only when you compare them with a right one do you realise how wrong they are.
As to your kind offer to buy them I paid £4 for the Buffs and £3 for the Middlesex and will offer them at these prices with free postage. The Royal Dublin Fusiliers ST (now returned) should not have been made after 1922 and yet was as shiny as a new pin and as flexible as a politicians promise.
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#9
27-09-13, 11:18 AM
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Colin,
the Queen's EI badges shown below were made c.1916 and almost 100 years old, like any badge if not exposed to use and the elements it will look "Brand New"! Andy p.s. PM me you PayPal addy and I get some funds to you!
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#10
27-09-13, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
not true! Brass (Gilding-metal) was used for it's malleability, it does however, as I pointed out above sometimes get more brittle when exposed to use! Plus some badges were made a touch thinner than others, please be careful with what you bend!! I've often heard "Old School" collectors making comments about bending badges and sliders to see if they were "Genuine"!  If they tried bending my stock, I do more than "Bend their Ears" lol  Andy Last edited by 2747andy; 27-09-13 at 11:42 AM.
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#11
27-09-13, 11:40 AM
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not sure who Colin is but I do take your point about 100 year old badges that have not been exposed to the elements as I recently had three Leicestershire Regiment cap badges from a house clearance that were as good as new. I can also believe that they were companies that produced badges of a lesser quality under war time conditions. What I find hard to accept is that certain dealers appear to have every shoulder title imaginable, particularly to long disbanded Irish Regiments, that all look wrong, feel wrong and shine like new buttons. You have to go with your gut instinct and mine is that these badges are wrong. When I first joined this forum I got an unsolicited email from a company in Pakistan who offered to make any badge in any quantity at a very good price. I deleted it but I now wish that I hadn't been so hasty. Simon
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#12
27-09-13, 11:50 AM
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Simon,
sorry about the name error!!  The fakers get close but do not quite match the originals! Your Asian offer would have produced tacky and easy to spot fakes! There are still plenty of genuine items to be had and a lot will look like they were made yesterday, the badge shown below came in today's post  .. £6.99 and 99p postage! It is "at least" 110 years old "Bargain" (Gaylor - Page 198/199 B (i)) Andy
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#13
27-09-13, 11:52 AM
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I have no problem with being thought of as "old school" in fact I take it as a compliment and I would never be so ill mannered as to attempt to bend any of your stock but what I do in the comfort of my own home is my business. In all serious though I think that the hobby of collecting militaria is being ruined by the proliferation of fake items offered for sale by unscrupulous dealers. One well known online militaria auction house has allowed their quality control to slide and other well known dealers clearly haven't done their homework. I am beginning to get very disheartened by the situation. Simon or Colin if you prefer.
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#14
27-09-13, 12:01 PM
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Simon,
I agree 100% that some have let their standards slip, whether from complacency or just poor customer service who knows?   But don't despair, there are still a few "Good Guys" out there who can source genuine items and provide friendly and reliable service too! You just need to find a good source and don't put up with any flannel! If you think a badge is not right, send it back (you may be wrong) but as long as it is returned as it arrived, any good seller should come up with a prompt refund? It may cost you the return postage (?) but drop any source that has quibbles about returns! Best regards Fred
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#15
27-09-13, 12:17 PM
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From my unscientific study of war films and TV dramas over many years there does seems to be quite a lot of Middlesex Regiment WW1 uniforms about. Now they all could have been hired from Berman's or a similar theatrical costumier and have genuine shoulder titles and cap badges but .......?
Tim
__________________
"Manui dat cognitio vires - Knowledge gives strength to the arm" "Better to know it but not need it than to need it and not know it!" "Have more than thou showest, speak less than thou knowest."
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