Boyles Yukon Machine Gun Battery Cap Badge

[mad4thcef]

Can someone clarify whether the collars belonging to Boyles Yukon MG Bty were worn as a Cap Badge?

If so could you post a picture or make reference to wear your information comes from of either a soldier wearing a collar as a cap badge!


Thanx in advance for clarification!

rob mad4thcef

[mad4thcef]

FYI

I have attached a photograph of Boyles Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery.

The Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery served with the 4th Canadian Division E Battery, the 1st CDN Motor Machine Gun Brigade CEF 16 August 1916.

Unit Strength 6 Officers- 94 Other Ranks

Disbanded 16 August 1916

Due to the fact this was a small unit and consulting with some old time collectors etc. I am convinced that collar badges were worn as a cap badge.

The dimension of the collar are Height 1.5 inches and Width 1.4 inches.
The cap badge is approx double the size of the collar and are RARE and expensive!

Note the picture of the collar comes from the recent auction on ebay! It sold for $800.00 US.

[Bill A]

The photo shows most of the group in stetsons. IIRC, there was no badge worn on that headdress. That raises the question of when the hat badges were taken into use? If the unit wore the stetson overseas, they would not have had many badges made.
The supposition that the unit wore the collar as a hat badge is a sound theory. Several other units wore collars as cap badges due to shortages. The 9th wore the 101st collar badge as a cap badge for a period of time, and there is photo evidence that some officer's recruited into the 159th wore the collars of the 97th Algonquin Regiment.

[army outfitters]

Originally Posted by mad4thcef

FYI

I have attached a photograph of Boyles Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery.

The Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery served with the 4th Canadian Division E Battery, the 1st CDN Motor Machine Gun Brigade CEF 16 August 1916.

Unit Strength 6 Officers- 94 Other Ranks

Disbanded 16 August 1916

Due to the fact this was a small unit and consulting with some old time collectors etc. I am convinced that collar badges were worn as a cap badge.

The dimension of the collar are Height 1.5 inches and Width 1.4 inches.
The cap badge is approx double the size of the collar and are RARE and expensive!

Note the picture of the collar comes from the recent auction on ebay! It sold for $800.00 US.

Hey mad4thcef
I do not have the final answer on this badge but you would not believe the amount of hostile emails I received from a few certain collectors/experts telling me that this was a collar. One person was at least kind enough to send me photographic proof that it was a collar. When I changed the listing to reflect this I received another email from a well known collector telling me that yes it is a collar but they also wore them as cap badges. Sorry I cant be of more assistance to you in this matter
regards
Dave

[Voltigeur]

Hi Gents. Just found this while searching on the subject.Hoping this helps a bit.
Jo
http://whitehorsestar.com/photos/sto...great-showing/

A photo of Joe Boyle.
http://www.yesnet.yk.ca/schools/proj...aphics/joe.gif

[Bill A]

It is hard to tell which pattern cap badge they are wearing in the group photo. Could be the CMGC with Canada scroll or maybe the Yukon badge?

[Joe C]

CSC (Signals) collars were also worn as cap badges during the First World War. To this day there is an ongoing debate about small caps, large collars but evidence points to the same sized badge being used for both uses.

[8thHussar]

The collar dogs are gold panning pans about the size of a Canadian 25 cent piece. The are marked "Yukon" and "Canada" and have a gold nugget in the pan that is roughly four times the size of the nugget that is on the badge. I have one.

[Bill A]

Is there some confusion here? I understood that the collars with YUKON / Canada and the nugget (gold for officer's, a copper one for OR's) was for the Yukon Infantry Company. The collars for Boyle's were leaf pattern with Boyles Yukon MGD Canada on the badge. (See CSMMI Summer Issue 2011, plus Charltons' guides.)

[8thHussar]

I stand corrected.

[8thHussar]

So what I have is an officer's badge from Boyle's battery and an officer's collar from the Yukon company.

[8thHussar]

Also, since the collar for Boyle's Battery was a maple leaf inscribed MGD, all of the discussion regarding the wear of collars as badges must be wrong. Perhaps there is a problem discriminating between OR and officer badges? Either way, the device with the crossed machine guns can only be a hat badge.

[Bill A]

At the risk of confusing things, the answer to the question is no. There is also a unit designated the Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery. This is the formation that wore the cross Vickers MG badge that is found in collars and a cap badge.
It is not clearly documented, but it is likely that Boyle's only actually wore the MGD pattern badge. If they wore a cap badge, it was likely the MGD badge. OR's of the unit may have wore the Stetson, on which no badge was wore, while officers' wore a forage cap, and it is suggested that the MGD badge in gilt was worn on that headdress. Both cap and collars were the same size.
The Yukon MMG badges came in two sizes, on a cap and one a collar. The cap badge scroll attaches inside the MG handles, while on the collar badges the scroll extends beyond the handles of the Vickers. Evidence suggests that due to shortages the collars may have been worn as a cap badge.
Having said all this, the badges (all three) are rare, and seldom seen.

[8thHussar]

It is my understanding that the "Boyles" appelation is a nickname only and that the official title of the unit was the Yukon Motor Machine Gun Battery. So I think we're only talking about one unit here. If that is the case, then the crossed machine gun devices, regardless of variation, should be hat badges only, with the maple leaf bearing MGD as the collar insignia. I'll go to the Canadian Directory of History tomorrow and try to sort this out. It is quite interesting and I'm impressed at the level of knowledge that you have on these things.

[Bill A]

It may be one unit, but re-named and re-badged. There are definitely two different size MMG badges in slightly different styles as indicated in my earlier post. These are identified as the cap badge and collars.