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  #1  
Old 16-08-23, 06:47 PM
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billy4294 billy4294 is offline
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Default Military or Civilian?

This photo was taken in Gibraltar and is dated 1916. I can't decide if the gent is military or civilian.
Anyone have an idea?
Thanks

Billyh
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  #2  
Old 16-08-23, 07:28 PM
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police?
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  #3  
Old 16-08-23, 07:37 PM
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That was my main thought Alan, but I couldn't find any examples of Police uniform matching that in the photo when I searched the internet.
Billyh
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  #4  
Old 16-08-23, 07:44 PM
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The single metal epaulette worn on the right shoulder is strange, similar in style to some Fire Brigades but surely not in this case?

Simon.
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  #5  
Old 16-08-23, 08:31 PM
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I hadn't considered Fire Brigade. Perhaps it's a possibility.
Billyh
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  #6  
Old 16-08-23, 08:43 PM
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A strange shaped sun helmet as well. Not of military origin.

CB
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  #7  
Old 17-08-23, 09:02 AM
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He is not a member of the Gibraltar Police.

Dave.
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  #8  
Old 18-08-23, 02:39 PM
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The absence of a collar number and constabulary insignia rules out police and yet the whistle chain feature is shared with one other public law and order institution that wore a similar style of uniform to the police. I think that he is probably a prison warder.

Last edited by Toby Purcell; 19-08-23 at 01:30 PM.
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  #9  
Old 18-08-23, 06:19 PM
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Thanks Toby. You could well be right.
Billyh
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  #10  
Old 19-08-23, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billy4294 View Post
Thanks Toby. You could well be right.
Billyh
It fits if the chain is connected to a whistle, but of course it might also be a chain attached to a pocket watch in his breast pocket, in which case it would be back to the drawing board, Billy.
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  #11  
Old 20-08-23, 11:13 AM
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Looking at the bulge below the chain it could well be that there is an "Acme" police whistle on the end of it.
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  #12  
Old 20-08-23, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
Looking at the bulge below the chain it could well be that there is an "Acme" police whistle on the end of it.
Yes I think you’re right, I can see it too now.
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  #13  
Old 21-08-23, 07:24 AM
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No relation to this Ebay Seller but here is another example of the same Uniform being worn, again taken in Gibraltar.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204433238...3Avlp_homepage

Simon.
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  #14  
Old 21-08-23, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawthorn View Post
No relation to this Ebay Seller but here is another example of the same Uniform being worn, again taken in Gibraltar.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/204433238...3Avlp_homepage

Simon.
Thanks Simon, that is really helpful, as it’s a much larger image and I can see that the buttons have a Queen Victoria crown with some lettering beneath. The single shoulder piece is much more clearly an unusually shaped arrangement of interwoven chain links similar, but not the exact same to those worn in pairs by some cavalry units to protect against sword cuts in a melee**. He also has a more Anglo-Saxon appearance than the other photo.

“More than 12,000 British and Irish male convicts were transported to the British penal colonies of Bermuda and Gibraltar between 1824-75. During the day convicts worked on the Royal Naval dockyards, mostly quarrying and transporting stone for building projects, and were shut up at night on prison hulks or on-shore barracks. The convict establishment included both transported felons from Britain and Ireland and those convicted locally in Gibraltar: mostly Spaniards, but also sailors, soldiers and sojourners from around the world. The
Convict Prison was finally closed in 1875”


There was also a Detention Barracks run by military prisons warders on Windmill Hill. It was demolished in 1962.

**single or double shoulder chains of similar shape to that shown seem to have been a traditional marker of rank in Victorian era British fire brigades so there is a possibility that the fellows in the photographs are firemen wearing their dress uniform. Fire Brigades too tended to wear buttons with a royal crown insignia as the central feature. However, on the contrary side a double breasted jacket was almost ubiquitous for firemen.
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Last edited by Toby Purcell; 21-08-23 at 03:15 PM.
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