More Munster. - Page 2 - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

thursdaychris · #16 29-07-23, 12:12 PM

Well, thanks yet again to John Mulcahy, I will no longer have to search through all the old forum threads when I need a bit more info on the Munster's collar badges. It does remain to be seen what other goodies have yet to come my way, speaking of which, I'm fairly sure that I would have seen the shoulder belt plate overlay, below, before most other people.

The thought of actually having something in my collection from the HEIC was a real heartstopper, sadly, however, despite what it said on the sellers website, it's nothing to do with what later became the Munsters. If it had been the Bengal Fusiliers, Royal or otherwise, I would have gone to great lengths to bag it well before anyone else.

Toby Purcell · #17 29-07-23, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thursdaychris

Well, thanks yet again to John Mulcahy, I will no longer have to search through all the old forum threads when I need a bit more info on the Munster's collar badges. It does remain to be seen what other goodies have yet to come my way, speaking of which, I'm fairly sure that I would have seen the shoulder belt plate overlay, below, before most other people.

The thought of actually having something in my collection from the HEIC was a real heartstopper, sadly, however, despite what it said, it's nothing to do with what later became the Munsters. If it had been the Bengal Fusiliers, Royal or otherwise, I would have gone to great lengths to bag it well before anyone else.

That one became Royal Dublin Fusiliers, Chris, which you might perhaps already know. You can still keep an eye out for the Bengal Fusiliers equivalent though, albeit they equally rarely come up for sale. Happy hunting nonetheless!

thursdaychris · #18 27-09-23, 10:03 AM

Hello Chaps,

I have been keenly awaiting developments on the RMF economy front for the last couple of months, and I'm pleased to report that a very nice example is finally on it's way to Chez Moi. I did have some initial doubts about this particular badge, the slider does not seem to be quite as I would have expected. However, I did notice that a very similar looking badge has been sold on the forum classified section in the last week, so, I guess that such a slider is not a problem.

The estimates of what I might have to pay for such a badge were right on the ball, my winning bid turned out to be a princely £67.50. I was also quite interested to see that a well known dealer based in South Wales came a very close second, I'm thinking that if he was prepared to bid this kind of money, the badge has got a pretty good chance of being kosher!

Alan O · #19 27-09-23, 03:13 PM

It makes you wonder what he would ask you to pay for it if he had been the winner.

thursdaychris · #20 27-09-23, 03:29 PM

Indeed it does!

thursdaychris · #21 28-09-23, 11:37 AM

The slider looks a bit different now that I actually have it in hand, I was thinking that it needed a bit of a taper on it, and it has.

Luke H · #22 28-09-23, 11:44 AM

The badge is absolutely fine. No doubts at all.

There’s a couple genuine 1916 all GM Royal Munster Fusiliers dies inc. Woodward and yours.

Approx.. c.£65 is ‘reasonable’ dealer list price.

thursdaychris · #23 29-09-23, 10:42 AM

Many thanks, Luke, I was fairly confident that the badge was a good 'un but it's great to have that confirmed. I'm now quite chuffed to have a nice, neat, three badge, top row for my little Munster collection.

thursdaychris · #24 20-10-23, 07:08 PM

I'm pleased to report that I have managed to capture several more additions to the collection in the last week or two, firstly there was a bronze officers collar, facing right. Then there were three shoulder titles, I somehow managed to pay £39.98 for the first one of these, and £35 for both of the next two, slight miscalculation there somewhere! Another single ST, in the same lot, went for for £52.51, plus a pair of small silver/gilt CBs that went for £150, sadly, not to me!

Toby Purcell · #25 21-10-23, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thursdaychris

I'm pleased to report that I have managed to capture several more additions to the collection in the last week or two, firstly there was a bronze officers collar, facing right. Then there were three shoulder titles, I somehow managed to pay £39.98 for the first one of these, and £35 for both of the next two, slight miscalculation there somewhere! Another single ST, in the same lot, went for for £52.51, plus a pair of small silver/gilt CBs that went for £150, sadly, not to me!

I’m not 100% certain, but fairly sure that RMF were the only regiment to feature the universal grenade superimposed with a device on its ball (Tiger) as a collar badge, and even more unusually seemingly only for its officers. What is more, against clothing regulations, the officers of several battalions favoured that collar badge as cap insignia for service dress as a preferred alternative to the large OSDB badge. It’s a pity that you missed that fine pair, but well done with the others.

thursdaychris · #26 22-10-23, 11:21 AM

Many thanks, Toby, I did put a small bid on the pair of silver/gilt CBs, but I didn't really want another pair of those. I wouldn't mind another single, of course, facing left, which I could then display, mounted on a shamrock, this certainly did seem to be the most common arrangement seen on officer's caps. The search does go on for right facing, bronze CBs, large and small, hopefully, in time, I'll find a pair of every RMF collar badge variety that there was!

mooke07 · #27 22-10-23, 11:43 AM

Hi Chris,

I too fancied the S&G RMF collar badges but that was quite the price, never mind, I’ll keep looking.

Your RMF selection looks very nice, cheers Dean

thursdaychris · #28 22-10-23, 01:03 PM

Aha! you were watching those as well then, Dean, I have had several RMF bits off that particular seller, he is perhaps ideally situated to find this kind of stuff.

John Mulcahy · #29 22-10-23, 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thursdaychris

I'm pleased to report that I have managed to capture several more additions to the collection in the last week or two, firstly there was a bronze officers collar, facing right. Then there were three shoulder titles, I somehow managed to pay £39.98 for the first one of these, and £35 for both of the next two, slight miscalculation there somewhere! Another single ST, in the same lot, went for for £52.51, plus a pair of small silver/gilt CBs that went for £150, sadly, not to me!

My own analysis of period photographs shows that the smaller badge is indeed a shoulder title and was worn by all ranks on the frock and the khaki jacket in India. Examples of this small title are found with the maker’s mark of the firm of J.R. Gaunt, London and I have never found any reference to the pattern being sealed in the National Archives. Thus I think this badge may be an unofficial regimental item. I believe it only exists in GM and in this single orientation.

The larger badge (that seems like a title) I believe was only ever used as a pagri badge. It can be found in both bi-metal and all GM versions but again I have only ever seen it face one way. I have yet to find any image of it being worn on the shoulder strap. When I do find images of it in use (so far , always only on the Foreigh Service Helmet) a different badge is used on the shoulder strap.

John

Toby Purcell · #30 23-10-23, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Mulcahy

My own analysis of period photographs shows that the smaller badge is indeed a shoulder title and was worn by all ranks on the frock and the khaki jacket in India. Examples of this small title are found with the maker’s mark of the firm of J.R. Gaunt, London and I have never found any reference to the pattern being sealed in the National Archives. Thus I think this badge may be an unofficial regimental item. I believe it only exists in GM and in this single orientation.

The larger badge (that seems like a title) I believe was only ever used as a pagri badge. It can be found in both bi-metal and all GM versions but again I have only ever seen it face one way. I have yet to find any image of it being worn on the shoulder strap. When I do find images of it in use (so far , always only on the Foreigh Service Helmet) a different badge is used on the shoulder strap.

John

Thank you John, it certainly does appear to be a larger shoulder ‘style’ badge for discrete use on the Wolseley helmet.

Interestingly the 1st Battalion RMF, who went to Silesia to oversee a plebiscite in May 1921, the year before disbandment, were still wearing universal grenades on their collars despite it not yet being regulation for the rest of the infantry. I enclose a photo of them grabbing a hasty meal in a railway siding enroute. They were not a part of the two deployable brigades in the force#, so I think we’re probably ‘force troops’** responsible for guarding and escorts, but I cannot find any official details of their specific role, unlike the other Irish battalions in the force.

In addition there is a photo of the two conjoined title badges, shoulder and helmet and two other photos of soldiers thought to be from the RMF during WW1 that you might not have seen before.

#they are not even mentioned in the official ORBAT and yet they were there.
**the equivalent of divisional troops.