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  #1  
Old 10-05-17, 11:35 PM
soldier1 soldier1 is offline
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Default Sword Research

Good evening members;

I hope some of you can help me in the researching of a sword that I'm involved in as fols;

A long time friend of mine (Ex RCOC/Loggie); 50 years and counting) has asked the museum if we can find out some info on a sword that has been in his family for a few generations. First a little history;

In New Brunswick after the revolution and expulsion of the Acadians in the 18th century, the British army deployed mounted patrols throughout the area.These patrols would frequently seek shelter in various farms they came across. The policy was that these patrols would pay farmers for the use of their property.
One of my friends ancestors was requested to harbour such a patrol. When the patrol left, the officer, Lieut R Luard, did not have any money and offered to leave his sword as a guarantee that he would return with the money.

He never did return and the sword has been handed down from father to son ever since.

The basket of the sword has a crest in it that I believe is the Royal Cypher of George 1V (King 1820-1830);

On the blade is the inscription; Lieut
R, LUARD
Royal Artillery
1823

The scabbard of leather and metal is in poor condition.

Can anyone confirm the crest is in fact the Royal Cypher?

Would the date on the blade be the year of manufacture or the year of commissioning of Lt LUARD?

Could a kind member point me in the direction of trying to find out the history of LT LUARD Royal Artillery?

I have pictures that I will ask our good friend Bill Alexander to post for me as I have no photo account.

Any comments, observations or leads to further info would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers Al
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  #2  
Old 11-05-17, 12:01 AM
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Bill A Bill A is offline
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Images for Alan's post above.
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  #3  
Old 11-05-17, 07:32 AM
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Cribyn Cribyn is offline
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Hello Al

Your cypher would certainly appear to be that of George IV.

I would suggest that the date on the blade relates to the officer, rather than the sword itself, so most probably you are correct, it is the date of his commission. It might possibly be the date of his entry into the Royal Artillery if he transferred from some other unit.

Roger
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  #4  
Old 11-05-17, 07:46 AM
Kevin Elliott Kevin Elliott is offline
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Hi there,

That sword is a pattern 1822 Gothic hilted sword with pipe-back or quill-back blade. The cypher undoubtedly is from the era of William 4th but the previous ones I've seen have the IV superimposed on the initials WR, so yours is unusual. I think I see flaming grenades, which may be an artillery variation? Later artillery officers had their own pattern, whereas this is typically an Infantry officers sword.
You see plenty with Victorian cypher but Wiliam ones are pretty scarce.
As to scabbard condition, you're lucky that the leather has survived at all. A nice sword.
I've not encountered swords with their manufacture date shown, so would suggest that the date relates to the officer's commission or similar?
Kind regards,

Kevin.
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  #5  
Old 11-05-17, 08:10 AM
Paul Spellman Paul Spellman is offline
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Found these snippets on R.Luard RA after a quick google search.
The top gives you his d.o.b. and d.o.d
He's was promoted to 2nd Lt from Gentleman Cadet in Dec 1819
Also promoted to Major in Dec 1854
Hopefully someone with the resources can use these dates to research your man.
Paul
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  #6  
Old 11-05-17, 08:34 AM
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Cribyn Cribyn is offline
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Hello Kevin

Did you really mean that the cypher is that of William IV? It looks far more like that for George IV to me. William IV cyphers usually have a far more distinctive 'W' in them whereas the one on this sword seems to have 'GR' reversed and entwined.

The date of the sword 1823 would be right for George IV (1820-1830) but too early for William IV (1830-1837), although it is not unknown for swords to be re-hilted.

Roger
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  #7  
Old 11-05-17, 06:46 PM
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GTB GTB is offline
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Kevin,

what you apparently see as flaming grenades, I believe are actually the floriate adornment of the cypher.

Roger,
I must say that the cypher leaves much to be desired - I cannot in truth make out any reversed cypher at all

GTB
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  #8  
Old 11-05-17, 08:04 PM
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Hello GTB

I agree that the cypher is not the best I've ever seen - on a sword or button for that matter!

I compared the one in the photo here with other examples and George IV seems to be the closest match. All those of William IV that I could find (not that many I must admit) had a fairly clear 'W' visible. I thought I could just about make out a 'GR' reversed and entwined on the one here but can see no 'W' at all.

Must get my eyes tested again - booked in next week as it happens!!

Roger
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  #9  
Old 11-05-17, 08:05 PM
Kevin Elliott Kevin Elliott is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cribyn View Post
Hello Kevin

Did you really mean that the cypher is that of William IV? It looks far more like that for George IV to me. William IV cyphers usually have a far more distinctive 'W' in them whereas the one on this sword seems to have 'GR' reversed and entwined.

The date of the sword 1823 would be right for George IV (1820-1830) but too early for William IV (1830-1837), although it is not unknown for swords to be re-hilted.

Roger
Yes Roger, George IV, my mistake. Sword pattern only introduced in 1822 and as you rightly say, the date on the sword puts it firmly in the G IV era.

The example(s) I had been looking at, on Harvey Withers site, was a WR IV cypher which threw me. Look at these and you'll see why...

https://www.antiqueswordsonline.com/...officer-sword/

The next is described as a William IV and looks to have the same cypher as the sword which the OP owns?

https://www.antiqueswordsonline.com/...fficers-sword/


Kevin.

Last edited by Kevin Elliott; 12-05-17 at 05:52 AM.
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  #10  
Old 12-05-17, 07:35 PM
soldier1 soldier1 is offline
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Default Sword Research

I would like to thank the members for their very informative posts ref subj.

We now have a concrete base to proceed on for further research.

My friend can pass the sword to his son with a history of the sword that has now come to light; thanks to you.

Cheers Al
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  #11  
Old 20-05-17, 05:35 PM
soldier1 soldier1 is offline
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Default Sword Research

Hi guys;

My friend has asked to pls pass on to you his thanks for the info given and has asked if he could ask a last favour.

Could anyone give us a link on this means so he could delve further into Lt Luard's history ref his family history (where born and what his parents did as an example) Perhaps a census site?

There is I believe there is an email link to British army archives that lists the service history of army personnel. Is it at the archives in Kew? I don't know. I also believe there is a cost associated for the info asked for?

Any further help would be much appreciated to wrap up this subj.

Cheers Al
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  #12  
Old 23-05-17, 01:22 PM
54Bty 54Bty is offline
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From 'Kane's List of Officers'.

Robert LUARD, commissioned at 19yrs 1 month.
Gentleman Cadet 9th May 1815
2nd Lt on Half Pay 5th December 1819, joined his Regiment 11th December 1820
1st Lt 12th May 1827
Capt 20th May 1839
Brevet Maj 28th Nov 1854
Retired on Half Pay 17th January 1845
Died at Tonbridge 2nd November 1880

Marc
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  #13  
Old 23-05-17, 02:06 PM
soldier1 soldier1 is offline
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Default Sword Research

Thank you very much Marc.

Cheers Al
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