Submarine Pipers, Lancashire Artillery Volunteers

[Peter Brydon]

I recently acquired a most interesting photo archive on a CD for 103rd Regiment RA (V) (Lancashire Artillery Volunteers ).

I noticed in one photo that 3 Pipers of the Regiments Pipes and Drums at camp at Penally (With thanks to Chris Vere who took the original photo and allowing me to use the attached photo ) appear to be wearing RN submarine qualification badges.

With thanks to Chris Vere and Fred Doyle ( both former officers of 103 Regiment ) I have managed to find out a little more about the wearing of the badge. This is what Fred has told me:

As a very young subaltern I was appointed "Band President" of the Liverpool Irish P&D. (I'd upset the 2i/c - it wasn't difficult). A very young 2Lt in charge of 30-odd hairy old soldiers some of whom had landed and fought on Juno Beach. That's when I started to go grey. As Chris has said, pipers will be pipers. I learnt that and the Lord only knows how many times the wool was pulled over my eyes.

In effect I was the last president of the established P&D which disbanded on 31 Mar 67. I nevertheless continued to keep a keen interest in its "Crawford" tartan successors, now an unestablished band. Most of its soldiers I knew. I raised the wearing of the submariners' badge with both the Pipe Major and the Drum Major.
One of them assured me it was authorised. The other told me that the badges had been presented unofficially as "souvenirs" with no authority to wear them, and they had not been told to remove them. I can't recall which of them said what. As the band were then "unofficial" their uniforms were not supplied by MOD but had been purchased by the Hon Col, Sir Douglas Crawford, that's probably the reason they got away with it.

I already had a photo ( second picture ) of the Pipes and Drums of the Regiment beating retreat at HMS Dolphin the Submarine Depot in 1973.

I wonder if members of the Pipes and Drums were presented with the Submariners badges to commemorate the occasion ?

Another example of the sort of thing that makes our interest so fascinating.

P.B.

[leigh kitchen]

I must admit "submarine pipers" conjured up an image of pipe laying as in gas pipes, water pipes etc but then I realised we were talking artillery rather than engineers.
Only one man wears the submariners badge in the photos?
Is there any chance that wearing the badges was some kind of joke?

[Peter Brydon]

Thanks Leigh,

There are 3 Pipers in the photo wearing the submariners badge ( Front two and the one at the rear ) and I dont think it is a joke.

Peter

[David Tremain]

Like Leigh I thought that submarine pipers were using their bagpipes as snorkels!

David

[leigh kitchen]

Is the sub badge wearing simply down to the pipes having been on some kind of exercise with or showing hospitality to sub sea surface matelots?
It seems the sort of thing that could happen - a good training exercise / session on the beer & badges, hackles and the like get presented?

[Peter Brydon]

Leigh,

As it says in my original post, the Pipes and Drums Beat Retreat at HMS Dolphin ( The submarine Depot ) in 1973 and they might well have been presented with Submariners badges to commemorate the occasion but that is just a possibility and not something I have evidence of.

Peter