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  #406  
Old 11-11-15, 07:36 PM
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The soldier in the front appears to have a shoulder title ,where a large MR has been attached /sweated onto a British signal service shoulder title
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File Type: jpg Railways Battalion 001 (2).jpg (43.2 KB, 43 views)
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  #407  
Old 14-11-15, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by pukman View Post
The soldier in the front appears to have a shoulder title ,where a large MR has been attached /sweated onto a British signal service shoulder title
Puk, I am not sure they are joined, the MR title seems to be more to the right than it should.
Interesting photo, any information on it?
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  #408  
Old 15-11-15, 06:28 AM
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Yes Brent you might be correct ,it might be a two part title .While the image is not clear ,the more I look at it the signals service title is more consistent than any other alternative.

The only other soldier badged is a NZ Railway Battalion ,on the right





* I have images of 1st NZEF soldiers on a Facebook page 'Unknown Warriors of the NZEF'' ,if any one is interested

Last edited by pukman; 15-11-15 at 10:04 PM.
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  #409  
Old 11-12-15, 05:35 PM
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Trooper Herbert Bertice Acker 35779 ,New Zealand Machine Gun Squadron ,photo taken in Port Said ,February 1918 .

NZMGS patches on either side of his felt hat






kiamatetoa.com
Facebook community page ,Southland Soldiers and Nurses
Facebook Community page ,Unknown Warriors of the NZEF
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  #410  
Old 12-12-15, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by pukman View Post
Trooper Herbert Bertice Acker 35779 ,New Zealand Machine Gun Squadron ,photo taken in Port Said ,February 1918 .

NZMGS patches on either side of his felt hat






kiamatetoa.com
Facebook community page ,Southland Soldiers and Nurses
Facebook Community page ,Unknown Warriors of the NZEF
Fantastic photo Puk, looks like a British made felt hat with press stud, but your gotta love the British pug under the New Zealand pug
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  #411  
Old 24-12-15, 10:41 PM
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Is it not an Australian pugg underneath..
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  #412  
Old 26-12-15, 04:12 AM
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Is it not an Australian pugg underneath..
Jonathan, in visual looks it is easy to misidentify a British puggaree for an Australian puggaree.
In a hands on comparison the generic WW1 British puggaree is made of a thick wool construction, whereas the Australian WW1 pug is a lighter weight.
But the real giveaway to the hat and its generic puggaree in the photo is the hats press stud, this was not a feature of WW1 New Zealand or Australian made felt hats, they are however an easy to spot feature including one and two vent holes that were typical of British manufactured WW1 felt hats supplied to New Zealand and Australian troops.
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  #413  
Old 26-12-15, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sigcollector View Post
Is it not an Australian pugg underneath..
Hello Jonathan , Here is am example from my small collection ,As worn by Trooper John Frederick Weir 35408 ,of the New Zealand Machine Gun Section .Also the feature of this particular hat is the triple stitching of the brim .Photographic evidence of this hat being worn by members of the NZMR in Egypt /Sinai /Palestine in WW1 ,with the plain woollen puggaree or with the NZMR puggarre worn over the top of it .British manufactured .My example is missing its leather sweatband ,but I think it could have been removed as a comfort measure .Replacement hats for lost or damaged issued ones.
Cheers Iain


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  #414  
Old 01-01-16, 08:52 AM
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Hi thanks for the pic
The one in the B.W photograph appears to have the fabric edge rather than the triple stitch.
I guess the Australians must also received British replacements also.

A nice example you have Pukman.
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  #415  
Old 06-01-16, 07:59 AM
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Hi thanks for the pic
The one in the B.W photograph appears to have the fabric edge rather than the triple stitch.
I guess the Australians must also received British replacements also.

A nice example you have Pukman.
Interestingly Puks hat was originally identified by an expert in the uniform collecting sphere as Australian Light Horse.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=20777

Although there is plenty of photographic evidence and surviving examples of British made felt hats being used by Australians in Europe, so far as I know I have seen no photographic evidence or surviving examples of British made felt hat being used by Australians in the Middle East.

That does not mean that none were issued to the Australians in the Middle East, it just means it is likely they were not as widely issued as they were to New Zealand troops serving in the Middle East.

This being the case, Trooper Weir's Brit made hat which is supported by numerous photographic evidence and surviving examples that it was worn by New Zealanders in the Middle East creates enough of an element of doubt, which is much stronger than any belief that it was worn by members of the ALH in the Middle East.

Last edited by atillathenunns; 06-01-16 at 12:13 PM.
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  #416  
Old 06-01-16, 05:34 PM
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[QUOTE=atillathenunns;338196]Interestingly Puks hat was originally identified by an expert in the uniform collecting sphere as Australian Light Horse.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=20777

Although there is plenty of photographic evidence and surviving examples of British made felt hats being used by Australians in Europe, so far as I know I have seen no photographic evidence or surviving examples of British made felt hat being used by Australians in the Middle East.

That does not mean that none were issued to the Australians in the Middle East, it just means it is likely they were not as widely issued as they were to New Zealand troops serving in the Middle East.

*****Brent ,when I wrote that thread I did not own the Weir uniform collection and relied on information of others .Several years ago I was lucky enough to be offered and buy the felt hat ,named tunic ,reinforcement badges ,belt ,and named kitbags attributed to the trooper, that was obtained from the family .I conducted my own research into that type of felt hat ,and found abundant photographic evidence(although no reference material) and found that it was a variety worn by the NZMR in the Middle East, in WW1 .My chin is big enough to say I was originally wrong in my assumptions ,but now I believe that the hat from the Weir collection is a NZMR issued item .Which incidentally I am very happy with ,as I only collect New Zealand military items ****.

Cheers Puk

Last edited by pukman; 07-01-16 at 09:23 AM.
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  #417  
Old 07-01-16, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by pukman View Post
Brent ,when I wrote that thread I did not own the Weir uniform collection and relied on information of others .Several years ago I was lucky enough to be offered and buy the felt hat ,named tunic ,reinforcement badges ,belt ,and named kitbags attributed to the trooper, that was obtained from the family .I conducted my own research into that type of felt hat ,and found abundant photographic evidence(although no reference material) and found that it was a variety worn by the NZMR in the Middle East, in WW1 .My chin is big enough to say I was originally wrong in my assumptions ,but now I believe that the hat from the Weir collection is a NZMR issued item .Which incidentally I am very happy with ,as I only collect New Zealand military items ****.

Cheers Puk
Puk, it was not your fault that your original “impeccable source” (The good Doc Fox I assume) made a mistake in evaluating Weir’s hat based on its puggaree, to be quite honest the variations of just New Zealand puggarees and hatbands is staggering without taking British and other Colonial puggarees into account.

As I am primarily a collector and researcher of military headdress who dabbles in badges as a side interest, I am very glad that Trooper Weir’s felt hat was finally correctly identified for what it is, and that it is a superb text book example of one of several variations of British manufactured felt hats that was issued to New Zealand troops in the Middle East during WW1.
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  #418  
Old 09-01-16, 04:45 AM
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Is this a British made Hat or Australian also it that a New Zealand to the side ?

Regards Jonathan
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  #419  
Old 09-01-16, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by sigcollector View Post
Is this a British made Hat or Australian also it that a New Zealand to the side ?

Regards Jonathan
To difficult to tell from just the picture, I can see no snap dome but can see a air vent, which suggests to me that it is most likely not a New Zealand made hat.
The lack of snap dome is suggestive that the brim is held by a clip which suggests it may be Australian made.
However I suspect the photo of Cyril Bassett was taken in England, and in most cases the hats issued to New Zealanders in England were British or NZ made.
Basically not enough detail to make 100% call on that one.

The badge however is most definitely "New Zealand" and is one of the 2050 pairs of titles that were manufactured and supplied in England by the NZ High Commission.
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  #420  
Old 09-01-16, 06:44 PM
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Thanks Brent
Interesting that the title is blackened.
I will take a high res scan of the photograph once it arrives to see if any other detail appears.

Regards Jonathan
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