INNISKILLING PIPER BADGE?

[Wayne Ihaka]

these 2 are about 7cm across the base

very heavy cast items

never seen these before - are they Piper badges?

what period?

are they the real deal or copies?

[John Mulcahy]

Wayne

The badge you post on the left is the 1927 pattern regimental pattern badge for pipers. It is SPN 10173, sealed in May 1927 [WO359 / VOL. 18 p153] and appears as Badge Bonnet in the 1929 PVCN as Vocabulary No 1885. Of cast construction and fitted with a bracket to hold the feather hackle. It appears as Badge Bonnet in the 1929 PVCN as Vocabulary No 1885. I do not know if it appears in the 1933 PVCN but is not in the 1936 PVCN or subsequent issues according to the late Maj. D.D.A. Linaker.

It worn by pipers (initially also by the pipe-major but by the 1930's he had taken a 2 piece badge into wear) from c. 1927 to after World War 2. 60 x 74.5 mm approx. The one in the post appears genuine to me.

The larger of the two (the images on the right in your opening post) is a little trickier. You will find cast brass versions of this badge reported to be musicians pouch badges.

A very similar badge (but not identical) is shown worn by Pipe Major Fischer in R.G. Harris’ book “The Irish Regiments A pictorial record” and is dated 1922-24. This badge being worn by Fischer is definitely unofficial.

In 1921 The Irish Line Regiments had piper’s bonnet badges, and kilt brooches officially approved and sealed. This appears to be part of an effort to “codify” pipers, piper’s uniforms and insignia in the Irish regiments.

The bonnet badge for Sgt. Pipers and Pipers of The Royal Inniskilling Fusiliers was sealed on 24th Oct. 1921 and allocated the pattern number 3587/1921. This sealing is recorded in the Royal Army Clothing Department, list of changes vol. 16 page 180. [Duplicated in vol. 18 p25]. Held at the National Archives Kew as WO359.

The standard pattern card is held by the Imperial War Museum and I viewed the card in May 2016. This badge is no different from the regular pattern cap badge worn by rank and file other than having pins as a fitment. Is in in fact nominally identical to sealed pattern 4684 sealed 04/08/1898 with pins for the FSC . It is quite possible that the so called bandman's pouch badge was the inspiration for the unofficial piper’s badge seen in the photo in Harris' book.

A similar thing happened with the Irish Guards. They simply appeared to have their valise star struck in white metal as their pipers star.

However it appears that the pattern 3587 was not readily worn by pipers, if the photo in Harris' book is representative,

Prior to 1919 this the only battalion with pipers documented to have a unique cap badge that I have found is the 3rd Battalion, Formerly The Royal Tyrone Fusiliers Militia. Their badge was Grenade & Castle within a wreath of Shamrocks with a grey feather , they had a unique uniform. The pipers of the battalion wore a Kilmarnock bonnet, Black Tunic with silver regimental buttons, silver 1 inch lace on the collar. Grenade and Castle and “Inniskillings” in silver on the shoulder straps. Saffron kilt, green hose, khaki spats and boots. Shoes with silver buckles, green garters This from the 1919 IWM questionnaire.

I have just completed notes on pipers insignia of the regiment. PM me your e-mail and I shall send a copy. This will explain more.

As for genuine, as for any cast badge, I would assume so unless the body of evidence shown more cast badges appearing for sale or previously available than plausible. So far I have not seen to many of these. I would hold it as possibly genuine.

John

[bravo92]

Hi John could I have a copy of the list you done on pipers badges will pay if needed
Regards John

[John Mulcahy]

Originally Posted by bravo92

Hi John could I have a copy of the list you done on pipers badges will pay if needed
Regards John

John, just pm me your e-mail address, no need to pay anything.

John