Guards W02 Rank badge query

[sapper533]

Hi
I'm just putting together a board of Guards Full Dress Rank badges (Except for Garrison Sergeant Major....fat chance me ever having one of those) when I noticed a couple of things to do with WO2 badges.

1. Why do I have 3 different sizes? The first one is Full Dress Size, the Third one is Mess Dress size, but what is the middle one......I have one this size for each of the Five Regiments. Could it be No1 Dress ? But I would have thought they just wore the Full Dress size?

2. Why is my Scots Guards rank badge facing in the opposite direction to all my other ones? I can't recall seeing anyone wearing facing pairs.

3. On Full Dress does the Drum Major wear four inverted chevrons without a crown?

Cheers
Sean

[manchesters]

Sean,

Dont forget the badge was also worn on 3 chevrons by Colour Sergeants.

regards

[sapper533]

Thanks Simon,
My problem is that the two badges are the same size (WO2/CSgt) and doesn't explain the medium size one.
Cheers
Sean

[Frank Kelley]

Really lovely badges.

[cavalryman]

Hi Sean, Reference your Scots Guards badge, i looked in British Army Badges by Lt Col Robin Hodges and on page 106 the badge in question is facing the opposite way to your example. quote in book says worn by Warrant Officer Class 2 on the upper right arm, so is the smaller one which is worn on the Colour Sergeants chevrons. regards John

[54Bty]

From the JSP entry.

Colours. Small. Colour Sergeants and Company Quartermaster Sergeants.
Cloth. Wire embroidered. Gold, silver and red on dark blue. Worn on arm of No1 and No3 Dress.

Non-Commissioned Officer, Warrant Officer Class 2, Colour Sergeant and Company Quarter Master Sergeant. Cloth. Wire embroidered. Gold, silver and purple on dark blue. Large. (Colours, Crown and crossed Swords). Worn on the arm of No1 Dress Tunic.

Marc

[sapper533]

Hi Cavalryman, I agree I an only find references to these badges being worn on the right arm only. But I have seen a Victorian facing pair. Does any one know if there was a time when these colour badges were worn on both arms?

[sapper533]

Now I know my example is a QC one but the photo does show that once upon a time they were worn on both arms......when did this cease? I'm convinced my wrong facing Scots Guards badge is genuine and not a Pakistani knock off and seems to have at least some age to it.

[cavalryman]

If you follow the link click badges then rank badges, all the Guards Colour Badges are shown. regards John http://ceremonial.wyedeanstores.com/...-by-type-rank-

[David Tremain]

I couldn't get the link to work.

A while ago I saw a Garrison Sergeant Major's insignia online from a dealer in or near Abingdon. Unfortunately, I can't remember the name, and it never lets me save it as a link to my Favorites. Considering that there is only one GSM, the badges must be made for the collectors' market. If I find the name I'll post it up.

David

[cavalryman]

Hi David, This is wierd even though i'm looking at the home page through my link it says at the top and bottom of the page "the page you requested cannot be found" very odd indeed. anyway try Google, Wyedean Stores Ceremonial Haworth West Yorkshire. let me know how you get on. regards John or try www.wyedeanstores.com

[sapper533]

Thanks everyone
And thanks Claire's Collectibles, of course my questions are just about Full Dress I get your point about appointments and additional drum and rank badge but that might not be the case on Full Dress, have a look at this photo. Might he be a Warrant Officer from his collar badges and belt? And he is just wearing four inverted chevrons.

[cavalryman]

Hi Sean, The picture you show is i think of the senior Drum Major of the Guards Division, and not just a Drum Major of the Grenadier Guards. the Colour belt he is wearing has all the regiments badges on it not just the Grenadier's Badge. i don't know if this affects what rank he would be. regards John

[Frank Kelley]

I am a little surprised to see they appear to wear sequins!

Originally Posted by Claire's Collectables

Sean
I have no idea what the mid size badge is for, however just to confirm Marc's post, the Large badge is worn by both WO2 and CSgt on the scarlet tunic, mounted upon chevrons for CSgt. The Large badge is worn on No1 Dress (Blues) by WO2 and the smaller mounted upon chevrons by CSgt. The smaller badge is also worn by WO2 on its own on Mess Dress and upon chevrons by CSgt.

However just to confuse the issue, Scots Guards WO2 wear the large badge on Mess Dress.

As for your Drum Major question, DMaj is an appointment not a rank, so it would depend what rank the person in that appointment was as to what insignia would be worn. All would wear the Drum and Inverted Four Bar Chevrons, a Sgt just this array, a CSgt with the addition of a small crown and a WO2 with a large crown.

[Unknownsoldier]

Sapper: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Guards-Lon...UjidZt8ZJwNlRA

Might be good as a centre piece even if no age to it