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#2
26-07-17, 06:09 PM
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unidentified naval button
Hi Tony
It is possible that this is a button for the Admiralty Dredging Service. This consisted of civilian manned vessels either owned or on charter to the Admiralty. The Dredging Service was originally part of the Admiralty Works Department. It later became part of the Civil Engineer-in-Chiefs Department. These buttons turn up fairly often. I have seen VQC examples with both an upright anchor and a sloping anchor. I have also seen King's Crown examples. So far no-one has been able to positively identify them but it is highly likely that they are linked to the Dredging Service. Pete 
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#3
27-07-17, 07:02 AM
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It has been discussied in an earlier thread:
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...ad.php?t=42185
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#5
27-07-17, 08:37 AM
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I do not agree with naming this button Admiralty Dockyard.
The proper name is Royal Dockyard or Royal Navy Dockyard. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Navy_Dockyard
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#6
27-07-17, 02:09 PM
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unidentified naval button
I agree with Btns! Though the appropriate name for dockyards was Royal Dockyard or H.M. Dockyard.
No-one has said that this is an Admiralty Dockyard button or that the AD stands for Admiralty Dockyard. I have NEVER come across any buttons for Admiralty Dockyards. Who would wear them? People working within the dockyard were/are civilians and don't wear a uniform and never have done. It was only those civilian personnel employed afloat that wore a uniform - and even then only the officers. This includes such organisations as the Admiralty Dredging Service, the Admiralty Coaling Service and later the Yardcraft Service and Royal Maritime Auxiliary Service. The only other uniformed civiians employed in the dockyards were the dockyard police and they had their own distinctive police uniforms and buttons. I must emphasise again - there has never been a uniform or button for Admiralty Dockyard employees. People are often too quick to attribute suitable, convenient names to lettered naval buttons without considering who would actually need them or a reason for their existence. Sorry about the rant! Pete
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#7
27-07-17, 02:45 PM
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button
I have found the old thread, where Milmed mentions a cap badge with the same lettering, he hailed from South Africa. Maybe just a coincidence or something local to HM Dockyards in SA. Sorry for opening such a can of worms
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#9
27-07-17, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Steven
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#10
27-07-17, 09:11 PM
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'War Department' and 'Admiralty' are always spoken about, I don't think I have seen 'Admiralty Department' used before. Would it even be a correct term?
I would like to say that this button is, as already stated above, not anything to do with the police.
__________________
"Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts."
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#11
28-07-17, 06:48 AM
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unidentified naval button
Thanks for your comments everyone and, once again, sorry about the rant. Special thanks to Btns. You are so right about how difficult it is to debunk the myths that keep going around about the origins of badges and buttons. You often feel that you are banging your head against a brick wall and that no-one wants to listen simply because the myth suits them.
One of my personal dislikes that often appears concerns the First World War metal Royal Navy Chaplains lapel badge - the number of times you hear that it was a cap badge worn by chaplains serving with the Royal Naval Division! The Navy seems to be very prone to these sort of myths. Any sort of badge or button with a foul anchor is always assumed to be Royal Navy - you only have to look at the so-called 'Royal Navy' buttons that appear on e-bay. The presence of a crown only makes things worse. Yet there were dozens of yacht clubs around the world which had crowns and foul anchors on their buttons. As we have seen above, the presence of letters only serves to complicate the matter! Solving these mysteries is part of the pleasure of collecting naval buttons. It certainly isn't easy and there are few places you can go for information. Even institutions such as the National Maritime Museum aren't much help. If you look at the buttons, for instance, in their on-line collections you will see many buttons well-known to collectors which are incorrectly identified or simply listed as unknown. It's the same with their RN badges. It is often only the diligent research of collectors over many years which finally identifies these items. And then you face the uphill task of trying to convince everyone else that you know what it is! And the 'AD' buttons aren't only found in South Africa (though they do seem to turn up there rather often). I have found a couple in the UK. They only seem to exist with the QVC and the King's Crown. I have never seen a Queen's Crown example. This would also fit in with the dates for the Admiralty Dredging Service. Finally, if you haven't got a sense of humour don't start collecting naval buttons! Pete
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#13
28-07-17, 05:48 PM
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Hello Pete
Just wanted to say how much I agree with btns that your 'rant' was well justified! Far too often people (especially sellers on ebay these days) go into print that certain initials mean just what they say, when all too often it just happens to be a convenient match of letters to words. Once it happens it gets repeated so often until it becomes accepted fact. A rant like yours from time to time brings us all back down to earth! Roger
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#14
28-07-17, 09:01 PM
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unidentified naval button
Hi fonmon. I know just what you mean - been there myself! If you can't take a joke you shouldn't have joined, all part of life in a blue suit, etc ...
In South Wales myself at the moment. Finding that the excellent Welsh beer helps with the rants! Pete
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