59th (Newfoundland) Heavy Regt RA titles??

[Paul Spellman]

Image showing Khaki thread
Hope you can see it

[Mike B]

Hi Paul
Thanks for this link to this site:
http://www.cdnmilitarycollectors.com...t=NEWFOUNDLAND

I think it is post 45 in the thread which you refer to - interesting!
Mike

PS - I hope this post is acceptable as cross-fertilisation across various forums must be mutually advantageous. Please excuse me if not allowed.

[Mike B]

Given the short life of No.11 Cdo it would be interesting to know when the 'NEWFOUNDLAND' title (or other nationality titles) were approved or first unofficially worn.
On reflection - the link to W BEACH COMMANDO, a Canadian unit, could perhaps be plausible
Mike

[Mike B]

Hats off to you Paul!

Thanks for the PM - interesting to read of 5 Newfoundland recruits to No.11 Cdo (out of 20 Newfoundland volunteers) - I must get round to properly reading my copy of 'Get Rommel' by Michael Asher ... so far only dipped into it. Appear to be from 57th (Newfoundland) Heavy Regiment RA and early volunteers (their unit arrived in UK in April 1940 per Asher).

Mike

PS - I remain unsure of chronology for the 'Newfoundland' title (particularly red on khaki) and would appreciate advice if any one has thoughts.

[Paul Spellman]

Thanks again Mike,
I have enjoyed looking into the wider picture of the Newfoundlanders who volunteered for service with the British Army etc. I too hope someone has some info on the title in question. More reading etc fir me as well I think!
Paul

[Paul Spellman]

An Airborne Newfoundlander.
I would not want to guess what Insignia Gnr Finn wore
Paul

[Mike B]

A further link re RA - Note change of unit designation (and there was me thinking Asher had made a typo) ie 57th (Newfoundland) Heavy Regiment RA became 166th (Newfoundland) Field Regiment RA circa 15 Nov 1941?
http://www.heritage.nf.ca/articles/p...-artillery.php
Mike

[Paul Spellman]

Ahhh! Thanks for that Mike,
I saw a couple of other articles mentioned the 57th which I too thought was a typo, it seems some of the Cdo Volunteers were hungry for some action.
Paul

[Blackadder1916]

A more complete story of Newfoundland's military participation can be found in G.W.L. Nicholson's "More Fighting Newfoundlanders: A History of Newfoundland's Fighting Forces in the Second World War". The Memorial University of Newfoundland has made it easy to find it as they have digitized it and made it available on-line. http://collections.mun.ca/cdm/ref/co...n/cns2/id/7204

In searching the text for the word "commando" a number of references come up including mention of "commando training" that the gunners went through shortly after arriving in England (actually a few days of playing at commando like stuff) as well as mention of the men who volunteered for commando training and where they went (11th Scottish Commando). Additionally, there is mention of the Newf in the RN who had been one of a group undergoing commando training at a Combined Ops Base in the Canal Zone that was drafted for attachment to Tobruk, where he was subsequently captured.

[Mike B]

Blackadder - thanks - what a great thread this is for a Commando anorak like me. It is always good to learn things.
Mike

[Paul Spellman]

Thanks Blackadder
Paul

[Mike Jackson]

An IWM photograph captioned; "166 Fd Regt RA. The CO's Order Group in preparation for the River Sangro barrage in Italy" It will have been taken in Nov 43. It will take a better computer than mine to read the shoulder titles - NEWFOUNDLAND (12 letters) or ROYAL ARTILLERY (14 letter plus a gap). Although First Army had been disbanded in Tunisia, 1 AGRA continued to wear its sign. The officer on the right seems to have become stuck in a 1914-18 sartorial timewarp.
166 Fd Regt RA_R Sangro_Nov 43.jpg

[Mike Jackson]

An extract from a letter written by Don Sexton to Len Whittaker on 2 Jan 87 in response to a piece that Len Whittaker had in Formation Sign No 139 concerning the 59th and 166th (Newfoundland) Regiments RA and their wartime insignia.

"The is no mention in "More Fighting Newfoundlanders" (CWL Nicholson 1969) of the gold on blue caribou design that you described in the Formation Sign. Similarly, Nicholson never refers to the gold on red caribou sign as being anything other than a vehicle or helmet marking. This leads me to the conclusion that the gold on blue emblem was an unofficial device and that Cole (Lt Col Howard N Cole (Heraldry in War") may have been somewhat misleading in creating the impression that the gold on red design was worn on uniform."

He adds that CWL Nicholson stated that "The British authorities concurred , and by Christmas 1940 the artillerymen, as well as the sailors and seamen from island Dominion, proudly carried on their shoulder the name "Newfoundland". The new flash was worn by all ranks of the two artillery regiments, whether they were from Newfoundland or not - a practice which on occasion caused some embarrassment to the English members of the units. It was about the same time that permission was granted to wear on the front of the steel helmet a circular flash depicting a gold caribou head on a red background. A similar flash was painted on the right fender of the Newfoundland vehicles."

Mike`

[Bill A]

Thanks Mike. This is one of those perennial questions that keeps coming back. The patches appear to have had stories created to form a provenance. Which, in fact were just to legitimize the patches.