Christmas Truce

[Mike Jackson]

From today's Times:
Christmas Truce.01.jpg

[Eddie Parks]

I am glad someone else finds this whole thing just a touch unsettling. Not the truce itself but the glorification of it today. And I do find the idea of holding one of the "commemorative" matches alongside a CWGC cemetery a bizarre lack of good taste.

But that's probably just me.

Eddie

[REMEVMBEA1]

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

I am glad someone else finds this whole thing just a touch unsettling. Not the truce itself but the glorification of it today. And I do find the idea of holding one of the "commemorative" matches alongside a CWGC cemetery a bizarre lack of good taste.

But that's probably just me.

Eddie

I beg to differ, this seems to me to be an echo of those men who were actually in the trenches rather than an academic who didn't go through the horrors , shared by men on both sides , that were the day to day life of those men. If in the midst of all that bloodshed the actual participants had the humanity to mingle in the spirit of Christianity who are we one hundred years later to condemn the celebration of that touch of humanity.

[Eddie Parks]

Well there you go, I didn't really expect everybody to agree with me. I am however just a touch curious about who the "academic" you're referring to is - it can't be me because not even my best friends would describe me as an academic - even if I have written a couple of books, including one on the Great War. To misquote Kris Kristofferson; "I'm just a simple soldier, Son".

It's just that I distrust the sentimental re-historying of the Great War which seems to me to disguise and thus dishonour the brutality of the whole thing.

Eddie

[Hussar100]

I have mixed feelings on this too. I wonder what I would have done in the same set of circumstances. Would I have been willing to relieve stress by getting involved or would I have continued hating them and not taking part?

In truth I think I'd have done what most soldiers would do - follow the crowd.

Despite the publicity over this football shenanigan it seems there's some doubt about exactly how big an event it actually was. I saw someone talking about it on the Beeb last night and they suggested it may just have been the kicking of a ball between trenches, not an actual match and certainly not an organised thing with teams, something which had long been mooted by the more romantic. This expert said it was probably somewhere between the two extremes - but it definitely happened.

The problem these days is we've become too American over things like this. People in authority get all slushy and doey eyed because they think that's what the public want. Maybe it is - maybe I'm the odd one out?

[Charliedog012012]

Whatever one's personal feelings on this issue, it is acceptable to say the the Christmas Truce was a remarkable event.....and it was frowned upon by the 'Higher command' who were strenuous in their efforts to ensure it would not be repeated in 1915. The jury is still out, so to speak on whether an organised event took place but many published accounts of soldiers who were on the front near Ypres talk about the soldiers of both sides mingling and exchanging pleasantries, singing carols etc...they also said that informal football games took place between the lines by small groups of soldiers. However, it is clear also from many soldier diaries and published accounts is that on the whole soldiers on both sides DID NOT actually hate each other. In many cases they each understood the suffering of their 'enemy' and had great respect of the fighting qualities of each other. There were of course differing viewpoints,...eg the Prussians were not happy at the idea of a truce and there are accounts where some English regiments held similar views. However, these days there is a fine line between the act of remembrance and sensationalism......I fear that in many cases the media places too great an emphasis on the latter. I have my own views and respect the views of others on the issue but I would ask that we do not allow ourselves to be influenced by sensationalist journalism.

[badger123]

Originally Posted by Charliedog012012

Whatever one's personal feelings on this issue, it is acceptable to say the the Christmas Truce was a remarkable event.....and it was frowned upon by the 'Higher command' who were strenuous in their efforts to ensure it would not be repeated in 1915. The jury is still out, so to speak on whether an organised event took place but many published accounts of soldiers who were on the front near Ypres talk about the soldiers of both sides mingling and exchanging pleasantries, singing carols etc...they also said that informal football games took place between the lines by small groups of soldiers. However, it is clear also from many soldier diaries and published accounts is that on the whole soldiers on both sides DID NOT actually hate each other. In many cases they each understood the suffering of their 'enemy' and had great respect of the fighting qualities of each other. There were of course differing viewpoints,...eg the Prussians were not happy at the idea of a truce and there are accounts where some English regiments held similar views. However, these days there is a fine line between the act of remembrance and sensationalism......I fear that in many cases the media places too great an emphasis on the latter. I have my own views and respect the views of others on the issue but I would ask that we do not allow ourselves to be influenced by sensationalist journalism.

I think you've got it spot on. Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Rob Miller]

I have found and scanned some documents dating from 1967-8 concerning the 1914 football match, they can be found in my "Ringway/ Captain Jackson" album.

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...hp?albumid=829

For several reasons I doubt that everything Captain Jackson had to say can be relied upon 100% but some of it must be true.

Here are two of the pages.

[Eddie Parks]

The 'truce" was far from universal, firing went on in very many areas and in fact quite close on either side of the"truce" areas.
Eddie

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

The 'truce" was far from universal, firing went on in very many areas and in fact quite close on either side of the"truce" areas.
Eddie

Yes I would agree. I also feel, in response to CharlieDog's comments, that it should be noted the Germans hadn't been demonised, nor the British through German propaganda by Christmas 1914 so it's doubtful many on either side hated each other, especially given the fact that Prussia/Germany had been a good ally to Britain for hundreds of years. In most cases it was ordinary decent men from both sides facing each other. No wonder they felt a spark of humanity towards each other.

[Eddie Parks]

This might prove interesting watching: http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zxsfyrd

Young Snow is one of the better, non-hysterical, historians working on the Great War.

Eddie

[Hussar100]

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

This might prove interesting watching: http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/zxsfyrd

Young Snow is one of the better, non-hysterical, historians working on the Great War.

Eddie

Hmm, not sure I agree. He does have a connection though being a descendant of Lloyd George and also a fairly dodgy old duffer who was a general in WW1, Lt Gen Thomas Snow.

I like some of what he does but I also have disagreements with much of what he pronounces as truth and fact. I suppose that's history for you, always more than one viewpoint on any given subject.