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#18
12-01-14, 08:54 PM
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That is a good point and I think on reflection you are right. Before I get bogged down in any detail, for Wayne’s benefit I think we can agree that he has a good genuine example of the R.I. Rifles forage cap badge from the c. 1902 – c. 1913 period. Yes, it is the longer slider so almost certainly meant for the Brodrick forage cap. Note also the slider is braised lower down that you get on the WM 1913 pattern (SPN 7330). For some reason the badge was resealed as indicated in 1907 without a change of design. I have yet to uncover the exact reasons why it was resealed. It is not usual for badges to be resealed when the sliders were ordered shortened in 1906 (in fact I don’t know of any) however, it is interesting that the dates of 1906 – 7 are so close. Also note that the badges were not resealed when fixings were ordered changed from loops to slider in 1902 at least not that I have found. What I speculate is (and I have no proof for) is that the placement of the slider in the position shown by Wayne’s badge made it prone to breaking and that is why we sometimes find hairpin sliders on this pattern badge. Such as the one posted by member” Jeanpit-frenchy” and contained in this link. http://britishbadgeforum.com/forums/...hairpin+slider I am speculating that the resealing was to reinforce with manufacturers a need to change slider position – possibly in conjunction with the shortening of the slider the previous year. I think the only way I will ever know for sure is to see the pattern card. I do not know where the pattern cards are, if they have survived, for these two patterns. So Wayne – I do think Andy is correct and whereas one can say for sure that it dates from c. 1902 – c. 1913 it is probably safe to narrow it even more to c. 1902 – c. 1906 and intended for the Brodrick Forage Cap. I wonder if the long slider rules it out for the FSC – which by 1902 had been replaced in use for home service in any case by the Brodrick but did live on in India. The 1st R.I. Rifles were in India during this period. Would be interested in any comments on this. Probably time to get back out of the detail. Thanks for pointing out the slider length I missed that !  John 
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#19
13-01-14, 07:20 AM
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you guys are good - your knowledge astounds me at times
thank you
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#21
14-01-14, 02:00 AM
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Is there an image of the back? John
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#22
14-01-14, 11:50 PM
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RIR "collar" QVC back
Thanls for the comment, never would have thought of it as a centre for a glengarry badge. I am only interested in it if it is definitely an RIR collar badge but of course it doesn't look right.
Here is a scan of the back.
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#23
15-01-14, 01:42 AM
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The fact that collar badges were not typically worn, which is consistent with a rifle regiment status, is corroborated in communication from the regimental Colonel when writing to the war office on 5 Aug 1948 to request the replacement of the cord boss as a forage cap badge. That letter, reference S/158/13, is filed in WO32/12077 in the National Archives. I believe I am right in saying that this is definitely not a Royal Irish Rifles collar badge. Neither do I believe it is a London Irish Rifles Collar Badge, to the best of my knowledge the use of the harp by O/Rs of this unit only started in recent times, shamrocks being the usual device. The fact that there is only one loop is very irregular. What do others think? John
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#24
15-01-14, 10:26 AM
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Hello John,
Why is it that on the rare occasion I actually go to a fair wanting a simple QVC back plate and crown, that the only ones available always have a Connaught Ranger's or Royal Irish Regt HPC attached?  Kind regards Frank Quote:
Last edited by Frank Kelley; 15-01-14 at 09:00 PM.
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#25
28-05-16, 03:20 PM
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I only just saw your question when I searched for a thread on the RIR FSC badge. I have no insights into why the Connaught Rangers in particular ended up with many of their Glengarry badges permanently joined to their crowns. Don't know if it was done regimentaly or issued that way. I suspect the former as the PVCNs I have from the period to not call out these regiments as a special issue. John
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#26
29-05-16, 08:42 AM
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Hello John,
No, that was not what I meant, it was a cynical observation, that on odd occasions that I actually go to a fair, when you actually see a glengarry back plate and crown for sale, they tend to have an Irish HP centre attached, I presume, certainly the vast majority, a simple marriage of convenience, for financial gain by the particular seller, very annoying if all you actually want is the plate and crown. How nice it would be to see the odd county regiment that is completely original, in that they have been together for one hundred and twenty years plus. Kind regards Frank
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