FORMATION SIGN - HOME FORCES EARLY VERSION

[Bala]

Can anyone tell me when this first appeared and when the second version appeared.

I know it was only used on vehicles and never on uniforms.

Have you got a better picture of it?

The 2nd version (The circular pic) appeared on both

Any information appreciated

[Mike Jackson]

From my notes:

Jan 41 GHQ, Corps and Divisional Signs 1940 (A 5417) GHQ Home Forces Harp surmounted by crown

Comment. "Harp" is not really accurate - I think the sign was based on the Army Musicians badge (the HQ being located at Kneller Hall). Perhaps the sign was changed when the location of GHQ Home Forces changed?

[Sawstonjohn]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

From my notes:

Jan 41 GHQ, Corps and Divisional Signs 1940 (A 5417) GHQ Home Forces Harp surmounted by crown

Comment. "Harp" is not really accurate - I think the sign was based on the Army Musicians badge (the HQ being located at Kneller Hall). Perhaps the sign was changed when the location of GHQ Home Forces changed?

More similar to a lyre in shape

[Postwarden]

GHQ Home Forces requested War Office permission to replace the harp with the lion on red and blue - which they said had been approved by the College of Heralds - on 17th February 1942.

Don't have the original ref handy but it came from a file at Kew.

Jon

[Bala]

Thank you chaps - reading the responses then, the Home Forces formation sign
lasted only from:

January 1941 through to 17th February 1942

[Mike Jackson]

Originally Posted by Bala

Can anyone tell me when this first appeared and when the second version appeared.

I know it was only used on vehicles and never on uniforms.

Have you got a better picture of it?

The 2nd version (The circular pic) appeared on both

Any information appreciated

The second image - mounted on the staff car with chromed bumper - was taken (by coincidence) on Exercise Bumper 28 Sep - 3 Oct 41. The car's unit serial was a white $% on a black (?) square. The image features in the book - War Diaries 1939-1945 by FM Lord Alanbrooke - an outstanding read! Mike

[Postwarden]

Whilst researching in the British Library's India Office Collection I came across file L/WS/1/42 entitled War Office Secret letters – Formation and Unit Signs which deals with vehicle signs. Amongst the letters is one dated 9th July 1940 which announces that the sign for GHQ Home Forces is – 'Harp surmounted by a crown'.

This date ties in more closely with the establishment of GHQ Home Forces as an HQ in Britain to command the forces there in case of invasion. its war diary recording that it moved from Kneller Hall to St Paul's School Hammersmith at the beginning of July, which ties in nicely with the date of its newly-introduced vehicle sign.

The reference provided by Mike comes from a later pamphlet that summarises the details of all the signs notified and current at the date of its use.

A closer date for the application of the second pattern sign to the vehicles of Aux Units comes in the attached document signed by Captain Ian Fenwick and dated 9th June 1942 which instructs that the new sign is to be affixed to vehicles as transfers.

This shows that there was a four month gap between the sign's approval by the War Office on 17th February 1942 and its application as a transfer to vehicles.

Jon

[grey_green_acorn]

Major Ian Fenwick SAS

https://paradata.org.uk/people/ian-fenwick

And

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...hlight=Fenwick

And
http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...hlight=Fenwick

Tim

[Bala]

Many thanks chaps - great service again

How about my Tactical Sign question No. 490 - was that unique to Auxiliary Units?

White letters on a red background with a white bar was the norm but what about the Royal Signals element within the Special Duties Branch (Aux Signals) would that have been red lettering on a white over blue background? Would that have also had a white bar beneath?

[Mike Jackson]

The white bar at the foot of the background square indicates Army Troops. Early war period three digit serials are few and far between in my records. There seems to have been a grand reshuffle of unit serial numbers in 1943 when 21 Army Group was formed. For example 401 on which had been GHQ Home Forces Signals went into abeyance when the unit was converted to 21 Army Group HQ Signals (red 8 on blue/white backing and Army Group diagonal white bar. I suspect 490 went the same way earlier. The closest record I have to 490 was 470 which was carried by 37 Line Sect, Air Formation Signals in Austria in 1945.