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  #1  
Old 29-05-17, 10:27 PM
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Default British made US badges of 1943

As a diversion from my normal interests the following snippet caught my eye.

21.07.43. Ordnance to supply US Army with 800,000 printed shoulder insignia. Was this for the US Army Air Force, or do other printed US badges exist?

11.08.43. Branston submitted Contract Demands on behalf of US Army:
800,000- US 8th Air Force
5,000- 29th Rangers
110,000- 5th Infantry Division

A quick search on Google found the pictures of two of these units, attributed to British manufacture, but nothing for 5th Inf Div. Can anyone provide one. Apparently it was a red diamond.

I am aware of Fifth US Army badges, and know these were worn by British units attached to them in 1944. The Fifth Army was formed 1943 in North Africa so is there a possibility of confusion between Division and Army?

Stephen.
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File Type: jpg US 8th Air Force- UK made.jpg (38.3 KB, 23 views)
File Type: jpg US 29th Rangers shoulder title- UK made.jpg (6.8 KB, 59 views)
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  #2  
Old 30-05-17, 03:49 PM
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Some other US cloth items attributed to British makers. The printed ETOUSA is a product of The Calico Printers Association.

Jon
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File Type: jpg 15 AF Brit made JM.jpg (82.9 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg ETOUSA Brit made.jpg (75.4 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg ETOUSA ptd.jpg (71.0 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg USAAF ATSCE Brit made MD_edited-1.jpg (90.0 KB, 11 views)
File Type: jpg USAAF embd Brit made RMc_edited-1.jpg (71.6 KB, 7 views)
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  #3  
Old 30-05-17, 05:59 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Very useful information - given the apparent scarcity of 29th Rangers it is very interesting to see 5,000 were ordered.
I would be interested to acquire one if anyone can help with any leads please
Mike
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  #4  
Old 31-05-17, 11:09 PM
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Mike,

I also found this snippet. I wonder if the Rangers initially wore British Battle Dress with the British titles, and at some time all BD and insignia went to be re-cycled together?

20.08.42. Directorate of Clothing & Stores made arrangements to supply 1,030 suits of Battle Dress to ‘American Commandos’.

Stephen.
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  #5  
Old 01-06-17, 07:56 AM
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Hi all

As a collector of US Shoulder sleeve Insignia, British made "patches" have always been sought after, however there has been a dearth of any information or original source material of manufacturers contracts etc..

The printed SSI that are most common and seen is ETOUSA, 8th and 9th AAF and they are referred to as used for "raincoat." The US command and soldiers didn't like printed SSI and were more use to and liked fully embroidered but also utilised localised British manufacturers.
Below are several British made.
British fully embroidered are known as schiffli embroidered re 1st, 9th , what sets British made SSI is the fact that they could never get the colour to exact US cable colors and are hence of a lighter shade.
I have located the area where these could of been manufactured and that was the heart of schiffli embroidery production( Lace) of Nottingham and Macclesfied to the north. There was also a well known manufacturer of Uniforms and Insignia John Hewitson who produced schiffli embroidery insignia for the British Army so my thoughts is that is where the US had patches made or there abouts. If anyone could add to this discussion or PM with any info it would be a great help.

All US units had "patches" made in the UK during the war including units that never set foot in Europe!

The 29th Rangers scroll commonly seen is as per Stephen image and 5000 printed for a small elite unit is excessive and would of been stopped mainly because of being printed(not liked)cost and the scroll was unofficial and only worn if locally approved by senior command, hence individual commands within the unit would of probably ordered as per and when required, mainly for winter dress uniform, Ike jacket and khaki shirt which is where you commonly see them on(embroidered on felt gauze backed).And worn British style both shoulders.

Would there have been printed made-yes for samples and probably a small batch,however none have been seen and would be extremely rare and as with all collecting never say never!!

Phill
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 7. 9ID(WWII)-7.JPG (40.8 KB, 14 views)
File Type: jpg 11. 1ID(WWII)-11.JPG (37.9 KB, 10 views)
File Type: jpg 5. ESB(Brit)-5 .JPG (72.7 KB, 11 views)
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  #6  
Old 01-06-17, 02:42 PM
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Very interesting information.

I think the Hewitson referred to is actually
AW Hewetson,
Embroidery Manufacturers,
Albion Mills,
London Road,
Macclesfield.

I have been unable to find any evidence of them manufacturing WW2 cloth badges but they were heavily involved in making badges for the post-war British Army.

Further information always welcome.

Jon
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  #7  
Old 01-06-17, 06:22 PM
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Thanks Jon

All of the info came off the net and again very sparse with no anecdotal evidence.

" John Hewitson , who produced top quality schiffli embroidered military insignia for the British Army c 1890's(?) until it closed in mid 1990's(?)."

The schiffli embroidery machine was used originally for the tulle industry (lace)and could produced identical designs faster and greater than any single head machinery up to the 1950's. The US Army adopted this manufacturing process for official SSI designs (fully embroidered on twill).

Interesting to note 508th 82nd Abn was staged around Nottingham and you tend to come across schiffli embroidered 82nd SSI. So more speculation on my behalf.

Again any more info would be appreciated.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 82nd Brit made (Small).jpg (93.0 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 82nd Brit made reverse (Small).jpg (117.2 KB, 17 views)
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  #8  
Old 02-06-17, 02:46 PM
Mike B Mike B is offline
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Great thread

Thanks Badjez (Stephen), and Phill for picking up on the 29th Rangers, and Jon for manufacture clarification.

Mike
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  #9  
Old 29-06-17, 03:22 PM
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Default FSSF British made printed flash

I have shown this flash to many collectors, some say its a very rare flash, some say its a fantasy piece.

If it is a fantasy piece I have never seen another in my 30+ years of collecting.

The printing is crisp and does not rub off like many of the fakes. The flash is sewn to part of a US uniform.
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File Type: jpg IMG_5548.jpg (60.5 KB, 47 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5549.jpg (50.3 KB, 8 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_5550.jpg (56.7 KB, 30 views)
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  #10  
Old 30-06-17, 04:37 AM
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Hi Mike

Interesting, however there has not been any reference to date of printed 1SSF been ordered, issued or worn.

The official US issued are fully embroidered and were issued Stateside , once based in theatre,Italy, Southern France, etc...,local theatre made examples were issued from Bn to Individual GI private purchase, until US made stocks arrived.
When the unit was disbanded in France(Dec. 44), Canadian troops were repatriated back to Canadian units and Americans to form 474th IR with further limited operations in France and Norway Oct.1945.

Now one major point is , if they never served in England why would they have Printed SSI made?

Fully embroidered yes , the only reason for this is that individuals and or manufacturers had fully embroidered for returning Veterans in the UK and the possibly collector market at home , as done in Germany , Japan at wars end.

Also as noted previously, printed SSI wasn't preferred by Americans apart from what is shown in the thread.

Also the one pictured is incorrect layout and to me thats a red flag, compare that to other FE 1SSF SSI and known examples of printed SSI and you will see what I mean.

To be confirmed confirmed it would have to have rock solid evidence and not necessarily from a veteran.....

Phill
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  #11  
Old 30-06-17, 10:23 AM
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Default British made US badges

Its pretty obvious that I am no expert on US patches, but I'm a little more familiar with British ones. May I offer a couple of thoughts on the 1 SSF badge.

The material used for this badge is not of the type and weave I would normally associate with printed items made by Calico Printers Association. Their weft/warp usually ran diagonally across a patch.

Next, was it usual for US patches to be machine stitched to uniform. The item featured appears to be stitched in this manner. Would hand stitching to a sleeve be more usual?

Lastly, this badge being stitched to a scrap of khaki cloth could hide clues to its manufacture, and is a known ploy to give credence to fake items. With British printed items it is possible to see the reverse of the printed design where the ink bleeds through. Fakes don't seem to achieve this result. Removing the badge would do it no harm, and might provide additional clues as stated.

Stephen.
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  #12  
Old 30-06-17, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanker Mike View Post
I have shown this flash to many collectors, some say its a very rare flash, some say its a fantasy piece.

If it is a fantasy piece I have never seen another in my 30+ years of collecting.

The printing is crisp and does not rub off like many of the fakes. The flash is sewn to part of a US uniform.
The 1SSF badge was also used as a film prop for 'The Devil's Brigade" 1968 film. Just a thought.

GTB
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  #13  
Old 30-06-17, 11:05 PM
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Hi Stephen

US Shoulder Sleeve Insignia was controlled by Office of the Quartermaster-Heraldic section.Which designed the official "patch" and how it was to be manufactured-basically fully embroidered by a schifli embroidery process. There were NO printed authorized "patchs."

So look at this way, as a British made formation sign and compare it to say Parachute Regiment CST ,Pegasus and Commando printed examples of known legit and reproduction pieces. One can easily tell the difference.

Bruno Boulanger has one in his book , but again there is no provenance of anecdotal evidence.

Phill
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  #14  
Old 30-06-17, 11:26 PM
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Mike, the printed FSSF patches are made to decieve and take money out of collectors pockets. There was NEVER a run of the FSSF patches made by Calico or any other printer.
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  #15  
Old 04-07-17, 06:23 PM
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Has anyone else previously seen this flash in hand or otherwise, like I said I have never seen another. If it was made to deceive you would think the collectors market would be flooded with them like 1CANAPARA and 1CACR badges.
On the American collector forums some have stated that this patch along with the 101 Screaming eagles were made in canvas for the rain jacket?
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