69th dragoons belt with mixed badges attached - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

ajw64 · #1 23-02-17, 10:55 AM

Hi
everyone an interesting recent find
dragoons belt with
2nd south Canterbury rgt
taranaki xi rifles rgt
natal & o.f.s 2nd s.african inf
plus other british badges
any ideas as to date and how this belt would
have been put together
where it may have been at that time
hopefully it has a story to tell
any help/ info would be great
many thanks enjoy

Regards to all

Alan

manchesters · #2 23-02-17, 11:08 AM

Alan,

It appears to have a post 1952 Queens Crown RAPC collar badge on it, so after that date.

regards

Sonofacqms · #3 23-02-17, 01:52 PM

What country do the "69th Dragoons Guards" originate?

I always thought that they were referred to as Dragoon Guards. There have been a few of these for sale by auction recently and I wonder if they are real.

Rob

Wmr-RHB · #4 23-02-17, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sonofacqms

What country do the "69th Dragoons Guards" originate?

I always thought that they were referred to as Dragoon Guards. There have been a few of these for sale by auction recently and I wonder if they are real.

Rob

Dragoons and Dragoon Guards are not the same. In the British army there were originally two groups: Horse and Dragoons. The Horse were converted to Dragoons because these were less expensive in 1746 (three of them) and 1788 (the four Horse regiments that escaped the 1746 action because they were then on the Irish establishment). They got the title Dragoon Guards to preserve seniority and dignity.

It is typical a British Army title, but the Canadian Army had a Dragoon Guards regiment from 1903 until present (on the Supplementary Reserve since 1965).

The OP gave this thread the title "69th Dragoons ...", thus imho he means Dragoons and not Dragoon Guards. That said, the highest numbered British Dragoon regiment in history was the 33rd Regiment of (Light) Dragoons (1794-1796). Thus, like you, I have no idea what the 69th Dragoons is/was.

Peter Brydon · #5 23-02-17, 02:36 PM

Blowing up the pictures, as Rob says, the title on the buckle is "DRAGOONS GUARDS ". Some more examples :

https://www.the-saleroom.com/en-us/a...a-a53f00a3f396

and:

http://www.bamfords-auctions.co.uk/b...-belt-buckle-/

but nothing for a regiment called the 69th Dragoons Guards on a Google seach

P.B.

Wmr-RHB · #6 23-02-17, 03:33 PM

Well, English is not my native language, but I wonder if "Dragoons Guards" is proper English (the second link above describes it as Dragoon Guards, thus it seems that proper English writing is stronger then reading what is on the buckle).

Indeed, what is it?

Peter Brydon · #7 23-02-17, 03:41 PM

Could the buckles have been made as film props as Google brings nothing up on a Regiment with this name ?

P.B.

Cribyn · #8 23-02-17, 03:45 PM

Hello Henk

"Dragoon Guards" is the correct term, at least for a British regiment! Like the others I have never seen it spelt "Dragoons Guards".

As there seem to be a few about, any chance that they are a movie or TV prop? I can't offhand recall any films or programmes that featured a fictional "Dragoons Guards" unit but who knows.

Roger

Sorry Peter, you just beat me to it!

Wmr-RHB · #9 23-02-17, 03:58 PM

Two of you guess a fictional unit. I tend to agree.

Cribyn · #10 23-02-17, 04:03 PM

Just came across this interesting list of fictional British Army regiments!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...e_British_Army

No 69th Dragoons Guards at a quick reading but some interesting regiments in there!

Roger

sketchley kid · #11 23-02-17, 04:32 PM

It looks to have a double Headed S**** Hawk on the buckle but KDG it ain't.

Peter Brydon · #12 23-02-17, 04:48 PM

The sad thing is that, if this does turn out to be a "made up " buckle, then two other examples appear to have passed through the hands of expert firms of auctioneers who presumably thought they were genuine military collectables.

Do these firms actually research the items that they sell?

P.B.

Wmr-RHB · #13 23-02-17, 04:49 PM

As far as I can deduct, none of the large European armies (France, Germany, Austria-Hungary, Russia) ever had a dragoon regiment with such a high number. Most lists end at about 20 or 30.

Sonofacqms · #14 23-02-17, 04:57 PM

As Peter says auction houses should always research the militaria they are selling, perhaps this is why Bosleys achieve high results.

Rob

Wmr-RHB · #15 23-02-17, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Brydon

The sad thing is that, if this does turn out to be a "made up " buckle, then two other examples appear to have passed through the hands of expert firms of auctioneers who presumably thought they were genuine military collectables.

Do these firms actually research the items that they sell?

P.B.

In fact they only repeat what is written on the buckle (well Bamfords does it wrong).
I read nowhere that they say it is military.

The Salesroom one is in the category "Specialist Collectors" and says that the items going with it are military. Not if the buckle is military or Boy Scouts or .....

The Bamfords one is "Victorian, Edwardian and General Sale". Which does in fact says almost nothing.

I understand your frustration, but this is business, not collectors pampering.