A Couple of Militia Buttons

[Roy]

Hello Chaps,

It's been rather a quiet spell for me on the button front lately. However I did find these two nice examples, so thought I would share them here for your interest.

3rd East York Local Militia

2nd Royal Surrey Militia

The latter I don't know a great deal about, so any comments greatly appreciated.

Cheerio,

Roy

[rmarsden]

Roy,
Asahelena.wixsite.com
Button gallery, buttons s-u five examples shown.
Ron.

[Cribyn]

Hello Roy

Both your ID's are spot on and both very nice early buttons by the look of them.

Any chance of photos of the back of the Surrey button in particular just to confirm that it is an open-backed button?

A direct link to the website Ron mentioned - http://asahelena.wixsite.com/militarybuttons

Happy New Year to you all
Roger

[Roy]

Hi Gents,

Thanks very much. See attached a pic of the Surrey button - not open back in this instance but hollow and by Firmin.

Cheers,

Roy

[Roy]

Hi Gents,

Further to the Surrey button I see the link indicates 1798 - 1803. But I assume (?) that is for an open backed version.

Can I ask if you have any thoughts regarding the unusual 'hollow' construction of this example, especially in regards date?

Looking at one reference the date of this backmark should be around 1875.

Cheers,

Roy

[Irv]

Originally Posted by Cribyn

Hello Roy

Both your ID's are spot on and both very nice early buttons by the look of them.

Any chance of photos of the back of the Surrey button in particular just to confirm that it is an open-backed button?

A direct link to the website Ron mentioned - http://asahelena.wixsite.com/militarybuttons

Happy New Year to you all
Roger

Hi Roger,
Is there a similar site for Naval buttons?

Regards
Irv

[Cribyn]

Hello Roy

Your Surrey Militia button is for the coatee, so will certainly date before 1855 but, as you say, the dates of 1798-1803 will refer to an earlier version.

The 2nd Royal Surrey Militia received the precedence number '11' in 1833 and Howard Ripley shows a coatee button for them with '11' so it is probable that your button pre dates this later version.

The style of construction does seem a little unusual. Even with an excellent spun back button there is usually some sign of a join where the face of the button meets the back but on yours there appears to be none.

The process of changing from open back to closed back buttons was a gradual one and I don't think anyone can say with certainty when the process began or finished. That said, I would say your button is an early closed back example which dates from somewhere between about 1825 and 1833 - if my assumption regarding the use of the precedence number is right.

Happy New Year to you
Roger

PS I should have added that Firmin backmarks can be particularly difficult to date! There are so many confusing variations out there!

[Cribyn]

Originally Posted by Irv

Hi Roger,
Is there a similar site for Naval buttons?

Regards
Irv

Hello Irv

As far as I am aware there is no equivalent site for 'found' or 'dug' Naval buttons.

I believe there are some sites which do list Naval buttons but this is not my area and I would have to hope someone else can point you in the right direction if you have not come across them before.

All the best
Roger

[Roy]

Hello Roger,

As always my friend, many thanks for some great information, which only adds to the interest of this particular button. This is the first 'hollow' examples I have added to my collection, so was quite intrigued by it's construction.

Here is a slightly better photo of the back for you.

Cheerio,

Roy

[Lazio]

I would use caution in thinking all closed back buttons have to be from a period of 1820 or later 'blow-hole' closed back buttons have been around from the early 17th century, if not earlier. Examples of early. Regular Cavalry/Yeomanry buttons vary a great deal, but closed back varities were in use as early as 1794, equally open backs for both continued up to at least 1820.