WWII SAAF Battledress

[ssr481]

Looking for information on WWII SAAF Battledress. I've found, and correct me if I'm wrong, that SAAF crews wore Olive drab BD. Did they also wear South Africa shoulder titles??

[Arthur R]

Hi Jim

In WW2 the SAAF was still a branch of the army. SAAF wore the same uniform as the SA land forces, but with SAAF cap and collar badges and pilot/aircrew brevets. Those who volunteered for service outside SA wore a strip of orange-red cloth across the ends of the shoulder straps -- that, in itself, identified them as South African, without the need for shoulder titles.

I understand that South Africans who enlisted in the Royal Air Force wore 'South Africa' shoulder titles on their RAF uniforms.

[SAS1]

Arthur has it all correct. One additional point, apparently those who opted to serve only within South Africa wore a pale blue tab on the shoulder strap instead of orange, although I've never seen any evidence of it.

[Brian Conyngham]

Guys

As far as I know the SAAF male personel during the war wore SAAF/SALM double shoulder titles, see Owen 2103 and 2104. Females serving in the SA Airforce wearing the WAAF/ VHLM double shoulder titles see Owen 1544.

Seen examples with these shoulder titles mounted on the Red/Orange Tabs.

Brian

[Arthur R]

Originally Posted by SAS1

Arthur has it all correct. One additional point, apparently those who opted to serve only within South Africa wore a pale blue tab on the shoulder strap instead of orange, although I've never seen any evidence of it.

Thanks for the confirmation. The pale blue tab is a new one to me, except as a WAAF officer's rank badge. For the first 18 months or so (May 1940 to December 1941), WAAF officers wore strips of sky blue cloth instead of crowns and pips. A 1/2-inch wide strip substituted for the pip and a 1-inch wide strip for the crown. Women's Auxiliary Army Service officers had the same arrangement, but with red cloth.

AFAIK, UDF members who opted to serve only inside SA did not wear any distinguishing insignia. Indeed, declining to volunteer for service outside the Union was not always looked on very favourably. Lt Col Hiemstra SAAF, for instance, was court-martialled and expelled fromthe UDF for refusing to volunteer.

[SAS1]

Thats very interesting. So blue tabs were worn, just not in the way I mentioned? Maybe some slight confusion, although it explains why Ive never seen them!

[Postwarden]

The attached photos of a wartime battledress in my collection may help answer this question. The rank badge is only on the right arm.

Regards
Postwarden

[ssr481]

Many thanks to all who have responded.. I'm attaching photos of the two items that I've gotten so far (a slow process, especially when I'm researching for a book - not SAAF related, about the submarine USS CATFISH (SS-339)/ARA SANTA FE (S-21))..

And another question.. I have a reproduction SAAF pilot's wings.. I was wondering if anyone had period wings that I could compare what I've gotten ....

[SAS1]

What is the date of the SAAF Battledress? Nice item, but I am 99% certain the wing is post war. The wartime wings were very similar to the RAF ones (tan wing and letter, with brown wreath) but very distinct in style. The second pattern had red lettering in a white wreath, but English only.

The dual lettered wings came out in the late 1940s I think, the 'AG/LK' being 'Air Gunner / Lug Kannonier'

[Alex Rice]

Hi SSR481
Here are some WWII period pilots wings, sorry I don't have a photo of the back handy.
Cheers,
Alex

[Brian Conyngham]

Hi all

Had a chat with a badge collector in Johannesburg a few days back who explained that during WW2 the SA Air Force Other Ranks wore the double layer SAAF/SALM shoulder titles and the officers did not.

Can we have confirmation of this?

I will try and take some pictures of the wings I have for comparison, there were a large number of veriations and I guess Jimmy (Gooddudes)would be the best bet for info, as this is his area of collecting. Not sure why he has made no comments so far?

Regards
Brian

[ssr481]

There is a WWII SAAF Pilot Officer's tunic up for auction on eBay -

http://www.ebay.com/itm/WW2-Era-SAAF...item2c6298a472

which could serve to answer the question. Also does anyone have a good source for either NCO rank sleeve insignia or officer's insignia??

[Brian Conyngham]

Jim

Thanks for posting. Looks fine however it would appear the dog in the last picture has had a go at it

Batteries were not charged for the camera last night, so will hopefully get around to taking some comparison pictures tonight.

Brian

[SAS1]

Brian

The ebay link basically answers the question. I had a similar thought a couple of years ago, and it struck me - how could officers wear their rank with the metal shoulder title? It would push the pips a bit too far up. So yes, as far as I know, the metal titles were only worn by NCOs and Other Ranks.

Jim, when you say 'does anyone have a good source...', do you mean actual insignia, documentary evidence or photo proof?

If the former, all was general Army issue, stripes, pips etc. The SAAF had no Lance Corporal, but they did have LAC (two bladed prop), Corporal (two stripes), Air Sergeant (three stripes with a brass/bronze, or cloth eagle above) and Flight Sergeant (three stripes, with an eagle above, surmounted by a crown).

[ssr481]

Originally Posted by SAS1

.....

Jim, when you say 'does anyone have a good source...', do you mean actual insignia, documentary evidence or photo proof?

If the former, all was general Army issue, stripes, pips etc. The SAAF had no Lance Corporal, but they did have LAC (two bladed prop), Corporal (two stripes), Air Sergeant (three stripes with a brass/bronze, or cloth eagle above) and Flight Sergeant (three stripes, with an eagle above, surmounted by a crown).

I meant for actual insignia.. either period or good reproductions. I'm tending toward enlisted - Flt Sgt. - as that is equivalent (approximately) to my rank in the Maryland Defense Force (auxiliary to the Maryland National Guard - http://mddf.maryland.gov). I may be heading to South Africa later this year, so am lining up information, especially on militaria dealers (anyone know of a good one in the Durban area?)