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  #31  
Old 23-07-16, 04:57 PM
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gurkharifles gurkharifles is offline
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No need to apologise Mike - I agree it looks pretty awful - and Bess yes I think it's suspect. I can't believe GAUNT would want to put it's name to a badge made so crudely? So it is a bit of a curio. What I know for certainty is that there were two squadrons ( 28 and 31 ) of the Gurkha Transport Regiment who were re designated as the Queens Own Gurkha Transport Regiment on 30 August 1992 ( Royal Warrant dated 30 Sept 1992 ) - 28 Squadron was redeployed to Colchester in Nov 1993 - 31 Squadron I believe remained in Hong Kong throughout.
Whether theres a difference to the two squadrons badges because of location - I can't say. It must have taken a while from the change in title to the issue of new badges and maybe there were some "false starts or rejects along the way?
I've attached slightly better pictures for Chris - the fixings on the "GAUNT" badge are different with 4 pronounced rivets to the FIRMIN badge ( which I'm entirely happy with ) Tim
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  #32  
Old 23-07-16, 05:02 PM
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The badge I posted was made in the squadron, until I find the letter or my note book of the time I can not say when. However it was made before the Museum started to sell the all metal FIRMIN over ENGLAND versions, which have the front piece fixed to the star by two post rivets.

Both parts of the posted badge look as if they have been cast and then fixed together by araldite. No shear marks or any other markings except what is on the slider.

**

The FIRMIN marked all metal collar badge is also fixed by two rivets and has a single pin and clutch fitting.

Marc

The manufacture etc., of my badge and that posted by 'gurkharifles' is the same.

Last edited by 54Bty; 23-07-16 at 05:08 PM. Reason: Text added
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  #33  
Old 23-07-16, 06:40 PM
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Well Gents, for my money, I think Marc and Tim's last 2 posts have probably made things a little clearer. The crude all metal badges shown in the above posts and the AA/metal combo badges could well have been made locally in HK then. Additionally Marc has evidence that the 'Araldited' all metal badges were made in the unit and it could well be safe to assume the AA/metal hybrid was made in the same fashion - ostensibly perhaps to make up for shortage in badges?

We know that a badge was made locally in AA for the RLC (which presents in all silver) in order to supplement a shortage of the issued cap badge. Additionally a black Kings Regt badge was made in HK prior to an OP Banner tour in the 1970's - so it is a practice we know about.

What we haven't really delved into here is the murky area of copies/fakes/counterfeits - however you wish to refer to them - when dealing in modern 'new metal' cap badges - especially when encountering the Gaunt marked sliders.

Thanks chaps, I value everyone's opinions here and they are all valid - healthy debate and exchange of knowledge is key. Very interesting thread. In effect opens up the whole debate of Gurkha badges and the issue of locally made items in Hong Kong.

Regards all

Bess

Bess
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  #34  
Old 24-07-16, 04:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gurkharifles View Post
I've attached slightly better pictures for Chris - the fixings on the "GAUNT" badge are different with 4 pronounced rivets to the FIRMIN badge ( which I'm entirely happy with ) Tim
Thanks Tim,

That image tells me heaps!

Regards,

Chris
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  #35  
Old 24-07-16, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 54Bty View Post
The badge I posted was made in the squadron, until I find the letter or my note book of the time I can not say when. However it was made before the Museum started to sell the all metal FIRMIN over ENGLAND versions, which have the front piece fixed to the star by two post rivets.

Both parts of the posted badge look as if they have been cast and then fixed together by araldite. No shear marks or any other markings except what is on the slider.

**

The FIRMIN marked all metal collar badge is also fixed by two rivets and has a single pin and clutch fitting.

Marc

The manufacture etc., of my badge and that posted by 'gurkharifles' is the same.
Thanks Marc - very informative.

Regards,

Chris
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  #36  
Old 24-07-16, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bess55 View Post
Well Gents, for my money, I think Marc and Tim's last 2 posts have probably made things a little clearer. The crude all metal badges shown in the above posts and the AA/metal combo badges could well have been made locally in HK then. Additionally Marc has evidence that the 'Araldited' all metal badges were made in the unit and it could well be safe to assume the AA/metal hybrid was made in the same fashion - ostensibly perhaps to make up for shortage in badges?

We know that a badge was made locally in AA for the RLC (which presents in all silver) in order to supplement a shortage of the issued cap badge. Additionally a black Kings Regt badge was made in HK prior to an OP Banner tour in the 1970's - so it is a practice we know about.

What we haven't really delved into here is the murky area of copies/fakes/counterfeits - however you wish to refer to them - when dealing in modern 'new metal' cap badges - especially when encountering the Gaunt marked sliders.

Thanks chaps, I value everyone's opinions here and they are all valid - healthy debate and exchange of knowledge is key. Very interesting thread. In effect opens up the whole debate of Gurkha badges and the issue of locally made items in Hong Kong.

Regards all

Bess

Bess
Sounds good Bess,

I concur - we have a series of non normal supply badges, a museum badge and a good 'un.

re: copies/fakes/counterfeits of 'New Metal' badges - there are truck loads of them - believe me. Studying these modern badges makes my A/A project look like a doddle.

Thankfully, there are a lot less of them...

Regards,

Chris

Last edited by hagwalther; 24-07-16 at 04:42 AM.
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  #37  
Old 24-07-16, 06:38 AM
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IS THIS THE BADGE?????
I have just brought this badge from Hong Kong.
Could/Is this the badge??
I only have a copyright picture which only shows the front of the badge so cannot comment on a maker mark or not.

Genuine 1st Generation Queens Own Gurkha Logistic Regiment Beret Badge

This is the 1st Generation official issue badge made by the Regimental Silversmith in Gun Club Hill Barracks for the New Regiment on dated 5th April 2001... (From the Gurkha Transport Regiment to the Queen's Own Gurkha Logistic Regiment)... Less than 300 of this badge was ordered by the QM... The star and kukri blades are in Silver with the remainder in gilding-metal complete with slider...

The Queen's Own Gurkha Logistic Regiment (QOGLR) is the junior of the "Brigade of Gurkhas". Raised in 1958 in Malaya as the Gurkha Army Service Corps (GASC), it became the Gurkha Transport Regiment (GTR) in 1965, following the reorganization of the army's logistic services, and in 1992 it was granted the royal title of the Queen's Own Gurkha Transport Regiment (QOGTR). In 2001 its title was changed again to the Queen's Own Gurkha Logistic Regiment (QOGLR), reflecting the regiment's wider role in providing logistic support to the Field Army.
During their existence units of the regiment have been stationed in Malaya, Singapore, Brunei, Hong Kong and the United Kingdom and have served on operations in Malaya and Singapore, Brunei, Borneo, the Persian Gulf, Cyprus, Bosnia and Kosovo.
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  #38  
Old 24-07-16, 07:02 AM
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Ooops - ignore this post ...

Last edited by hagwalther; 24-07-16 at 07:28 AM.
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  #39  
Old 24-07-16, 12:47 PM
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REF POST #37 Just realised that it is a Q.O.G.L.R badge I am showing. oops
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  #40  
Old 25-07-16, 07:16 PM
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Default a/a QOGTR

Hi Gents,
What an interesting thread! Got in a bit late on this one but as I am the owner of the Q.O.G.T.R cap badge that is in Chris Marsh's book. Thought I'd better put my two pence worth in.
The badge in question was bought for £3 at Ashford market. The trader had no idea what it was so there was no attempt to deceive me and sell me a "knocked up" badge.
I thought at first it was an 100% a/a badge but later discovered after publication that it in fact was indeed a Hybrid.
The badge is in good condition and I.M.O is a factory made badge.
I understand all the comments and opinions for & against on this badge which is good that we can openly discuss our (my) hobby.
The one thing that bothers me with this badge is that people are thinking that this is a Gurkha Transport Regiment badge with the metal QOGTR scroll araldited on!
Well, I post the reverse of a J.R Gaunt B'ham GTR badge & the J.R Gaunt B'ham hybrid badge.
You will notice the 2 dies are very different in fact the GTR badge is solid backed, whether any Forum member out there has a GTR A/A die which is similar to the die on the hybrid badge would be interesting to see. I for one haven't seen one.
Remember this has to be an a/a badge not new metal.
I have seen a similar reverse die which was on a Firmin marked badge for the Gurkha A.S.C I have since sold it so I am unable to compare.
Why this badge was made I don't know but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the weight of the badge may have been a cause for concern? Certainly the R.G.B.W Regiment cap badge was made smaller because the heavy new metal ones kept falling out of the soldiers berets!
Anyway your comments are welcome.
Regards
Colin
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  #41  
Old 25-07-16, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ukbrits View Post
Hi Gents,
What an interesting thread! Got in a bit late on this one but as I am the owner of the Q.O.G.T.R cap badge that is in Chris Marsh's book. Thought I'd better put my two pence worth in.
The badge in question was bought for £3 at Ashford market. The trader had no idea what it was so there was no attempt to deceive me and sell me a "knocked up" badge.
I thought at first it was an 100% a/a badge but later discovered after publication that it in fact was indeed a Hybrid.
The badge is in good condition and I.M.O is a factory made badge.
I understand all the comments and opinions for & against on this badge which is good that we can openly discuss our (my) hobby.
The one thing that bothers me with this badge is that people are thinking that this is a Gurkha Transport Regiment badge with the metal QOGTR scroll araldited on!
Well, I post the reverse of a J.R Gaunt B'ham GTR badge & the J.R Gaunt B'ham hybrid badge.
You will notice the 2 dies are very different in fact the GTR badge is solid backed, whether any Forum member out there has a GTR A/A die which is similar to the die on the hybrid badge would be interesting to see. I for one haven't seen one.
Remember this has to be an a/a badge not new metal.
I have seen a similar reverse die which was on a Firmin marked badge for the Gurkha A.S.C I have since sold it so I am unable to compare.
Why this badge was made I don't know but it's not beyond the realms of possibility that the weight of the badge may have been a cause for concern? Certainly the R.G.B.W Regiment cap badge was made smaller because the heavy new metal ones kept falling out of the soldiers berets!
Anyway your comments are welcome.
Regards
Colin
Thanks Colin,

These badges do not appear to have been 'faked' as such as they do turn up now and again for small sums of money. If faked one would expect the person responsible to be demanding a high price with the first sale flowing on through to the next purchaser(s).

Regards,

Chris
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  #42  
Old 25-07-16, 07:54 PM
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Hi Guys,

For those who have a good high powered loop (20x is OK) take a look at the J.R.GAUNT B'HAM mark on the (what appears to be) the regimental commissioned pieces as per Mike's post (#15), Gurkarifles (#31) and 54Bty (#32).

The bottom of the characters are not smooth as expected but cratered. It seems the slider is also cast and this may explain the 'late' JR GAUNT B'HAM mark.

In fact, I think the star of the badge and slider are all the same part.

This may help explain the concerns re: used of this particular maker mark.

Regards,

Chris
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