RN COMMANDO S/T's ??

[elwe23]

Doing a part 2 concerning the embroidered glue back type posted before.

Here is Shelley attached to N°4 Commando for Walcheren campaign.

And a rare exemple of a worn khaki battledress from 1945 with that royal navy pattern type.

and also I did a little montage to determine which type is worn in Sallenelles on the 25th of June 1944.
See page 3 post #45.

[Skippy]

elwe whilst “certainty” is a difficult thing to achieve when studying photos / images that old, IMO none of those shown display a print ROYAL NAVY shoulder title.

Ultimately all those pictured have what I can best describe as a 3D element that suggest embroidered. An example would be to look at the picture of the three men sat at the table with the Bren; the right hand man has an embroidered title and then printed combined arms roundel - see how the roundel is ‘flatter’ in terms of the insignia because it is printed?

Also the printing of the image on the material makes it duller, especially once it has some wear to it - hence the CA insignia is fairly indistinct in that picture, yet the embroidered title is obvious. So none of the titles shown have that flatness or dullness.

You see the same thing in one of Mike B pictures earlier in the thread with the embroidered (I might be using the wrong word here - stitched perhaps!?!) title versus the flatness of the woven cap tally (is that the right name for them?).

In your montage picture, look at how the printed Y of Royal hugs the line of the A it is next to, yet the pictured title has a distinct gap between the two letters.

Just my observations.

Cheers……John

[elwe23]

Thanks for sharing your opinion Skippy.

I agree with you on certain things.
Here is a photo with the royal marines printed cash tape insignia, and as you described it is very flat and faded, can't even read on it. Usage and combats might have an impact on it, but it is the same for RMC before DDay in boats.

I have added a few other montage with Fez collection to try to add details in the conversation.

Also you are right, a few letters are often glue together at the bottom like in the embroidered version.

Also to add to the details, some were saying on the forum that Royal Navy titles were painted on white to accentuate the letters.

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by Skippy

elwe whilst “certainty” is a difficult thing to achieve when studying photos / images that old, IMO none of those shown display a print ROYAL NAVY shoulder title.

Ultimately all those pictured have what I can best describe as a 3D element that suggest embroidered. An example would be to look at the picture of the three men sat at the table with the Bren; the right hand man has an embroidered title and then printed combined arms roundel - see how the roundel is ‘flatter’ in terms of the insignia because it is printed?

Also the printing of the image on the material makes it duller, especially once it has some wear to it - hence the CA insignia is fairly indistinct in that picture, yet the embroidered title is obvious. So none of the titles shown have that flatness or dullness.

You see the same thing in one of Mike B pictures earlier in the thread with the embroidered (I might be using the wrong word here - stitched perhaps!?!) title versus the flatness of the woven cap tally (is that the right name for them?).

In your montage picture, look at how the printed Y of Royal hugs the line of the A it is next to, yet the pictured title has a distinct gap between the two letters.

Just my observations.

Cheers……John

John
You raise good points, which is what makes correspondence useful. I agree that, on reflection, one of the images I posted is almost certainly not printed ... to be honest, I was unsure if either were - hence my hesitant comments and reference to difficulty in finding an image that was definitely ROYAL NAVY printed.
I think this R.N. COMMANDO title 'might be' - but not convinced - it is a bit blurred to my eyes. Any thoughts appreciated ...
Mike

[Skippy]

In that picture Mike, as I say ‘certainly’ is very absent, as it could be a printed title but the image is not clear enough. The title appears to lack the 3D aspect to the lettering of the titles in the other images.

Cheers……John

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by Skippy

In that picture Mike, as I say ‘certainly’ is very absent, as it could be a printed title but the image is not clear enough. The title appears to lack the 3D aspect to the lettering of the titles in the other images.

Cheers……John

Thanks John. In fairness, it is the printed ROYAL NAVY that is proving most elusive in terms of photographs. From useful contributions in this threat I note the date of Royal Navy extended post war - with one contributor (James K) having been issued one - the argument of using old stock is a possibility, but paste back may indicate late war at best - still learning about this title in embroidered and its printed forms.
Regards
Mike

[elwe23]

No one had feedback on the montage I did ?

I can conclude on the last photo I posted that is 100% a emb version with the A and V glue and the Y apart. It correspond exactly to the second title shape.

On the 2nd and 4th photo I posted, titles seems to be the same pattern.
Very high bold letters that goes all the way up. That specificity is a main argument for printed version on the right of my insignia montage (I know it doesn't look very 3D, the forum server doesn't help for that)

[Phill Lockett]

Hi elwes23

Great effort on the montage.

First Image: Both officers titles embroidered,looks raised and there is a lot of space between the letters to the outer edge ie to stop from fraying. If you have it too close to the letters it will damage the wool/felt.

Second Image: Embroidered like your embroidered no2 title.

Third Image: Same as first IMHO, note the L looks like extra thread

Forth Image: I think its printed , Not much space between letters and edge closer to the edge to match the printed CO patch, glare distorts image.

Fifth image: Embroidered on felt. The image looks more raised than say a printed pattern.

Again personal opinion apart from one me thinks all embroidered-cant wait to see the unblurred images and have them all around the wrongway!!
Royal Navy Commando put together for display. I have several RN titles and one RN Commando for you guys to chew over!!!

The image to me is embroidered RN.

cheers

Phill

[Mike B]

Originally Posted by Phill Lockett

Hi elwes23

Great effort on the montage.

First Image: Both officers titles embroidered,looks raised and there is a lot of space between the letters to the outer edge ie to stop from fraying. If you have it too close to the letters it will damage the wool/felt.
Second Image: Same as first IMHO.
Third Image: I think its printed , Not much space between letters and edge closer to the edge to match the printed CO patch, glare distorts image.
Forth image: Embroidered on felt note the L looks like extra thread.
Fifth Image: Embroidered like your embroidered no2 title.

Again personal opinion apart from one me thinks all embroidered-cant wait to see the unblurred images and have them all around the wrongway!!
Royal Navy Commando put together for display. I have several RN titles and one RN Commando for you guys to chew over!!!

The image to me is embroidered RN.

cheers

Phill

Hello Phill
I always appreciate your posts and observations. Please excuse confusion. Regarding Elwe montage (post 48) You mention image 3 as possibly being printed and refer to C Ops badge - do you mean image 4 please
Seasons Greetings
Regards
Mike

[Phill Lockett]

Thanks Mike.

I have re edited the post as I had incorrectly attached my comments to the images!

Seasons greetings to you and the team.

cheers

Phill

[Mike B]

Many thanks Phill

[elwe23]

Originally Posted by Mike B

John
You raise good points, which is what makes correspondence useful. I agree that, on reflection, one of the images I posted is almost certainly not printed ... to be honest, I was unsure if either were - hence my hesitant comments and reference to difficulty in finding an image that was definitely ROYAL NAVY printed.
I think this R.N. COMMANDO title 'might be' - but not convinced - it is a bit blurred to my eyes. Any thoughts appreciated ...
Mike

He looks like the same person as in my other thread on RNC titles. But shot at a different year as he doesn't not wear the comb ops patch.

https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...5&d=1702596742

I will do a montage with this photo as well.
Sorry but I'm a bit confused with the two threads I'm contributing in. This one started with the Royal Navy so I kept my posts purely Royal. The other one specifically on the RN Commando patterns. For those interested to participate it's here:
https://www.britishbadgeforum.com/fo...874#post615874

Maybe if it was possible to merge the two threads in one ?

[Phill Lockett]

Hi Elwes

The confusion is Royal Navy titles were worn on khaki battle dress by RN Beach Commando's before the introduction of RN Commando title.

RN Title was worn by other units/personnel such as officers who were serving with 30th Assault Unit(30AU)-Previously 30 Commando.

Some ratings and officers who crewed Landing craft(suing Khaki Battle Dress) and any other personnel who had a reason to wear khaki Battle dress.

Officers who manned X Craft mini subs on Navy Blue battledress.

In general RN personnel ho wore Khaki or Blue Battle Dress used RN Title
Also RN Commando Combined Operations.

Cant remember where I got the above could of been from BBF thread.

cheers

Phill

[Mike B]

A good summary Phill

Partly my fault for confusion on this thread - I never appear to have much time and posted the image at 49 in the wrong thread ...

[Farang]

The reference for 30 AU information was sailorbear on 13th September 2013;

http://www.britishbadgeforum.com/for...highlight=30au

Andy