how cane thel if this are correct WW1 South African badges - British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum

dog watch · #1 07-11-09, 08:01 AM

Hallo ther,

For what I now this are WW1 general servic badge, shoulder titles en and collars of the south africans infantery. Only the left collar is smoller and don't have the leafs on the out site ring, so mabey this one is WW2? Olso ther is the story that the shoulder titles are only worn with the 1st DIV. And ther is olso a story that this badges are only worn with the 4 DIV. SOUTH AFRICAN SCOTTISH.

well how cane help me, is this a correct set or.....?

M'n intress is for a matching set for the S.A.S., so hope to here.

kind regards, Hans(sorry for any english text errors)

Alex Rice · #2 07-11-09, 10:12 AM

Hi Hans
The badges you have seem to be WWI vintage. The spelling of 'Eendragt Maakt Magt' on the badges was changed to 'Eendrag Maak Mag' in 1927 and the 'Zuid Africa' became 'Suid Africa'. The small badge is probably mess dress. 4th SA Infantry was the SA Scottish and was worn with a Atholl (?) tartan flash behind the badge. The 4 infantry divisions had different collar badges and shoulder titles to identify them, eg the 4th used a Cape Town Highlanders style collar with the motto 'Mors Nihi Lucrum' instead of 'Cape Town Highlanders' and the shoulder titles had a springboks head with thistles above the 'South Africa' etc. I am not near any reference books at the moment but I'm sure Traist can give you a lot more information.
Cheers,
Alex

Traist · #3 07-11-09, 12:16 PM

As you all know the WW1 period was not well recorded in SA. To the best of my knowledge it appears that the titles on the picture were worn on the great coats of 1-4 SA Infantry in France. There are a multitude of variations on the "General Service" badge. The SA Infantry in France did wear them as did other units. I have not been able to confirm where all were worn. The large one was worn by the SA Infantry in France. Alex pointed out the difference between the WW1 and 2 General Service badges. I hope this helps. SABrigade may be able to add as WW1 is his speciality. Regards Andrew

dog watch · #4 07-11-09, 10:14 PM

Thanks for the fast replies, it helps a lot.

So the 4th INF DIV. South African Scottish worn during WW1 in France and Belgium the tipe of badge on the photo. Only the coller whas for the S.A.S. diverend (?).Is it possible Alax to make a scane or photo for me of the moto titles and collars of the SAS what whas worn during WW1?

Well thanks agian.

regards,

Hans

Alex Rice · #5 08-11-09, 03:54 AM

Hi Hans
I should be able to help you out but you'll have to wait a week or so, I'm away from home at the moment but will be back then.
Cheers,
Alex

sabrigade · #6 08-11-09, 04:41 PM

Hans,

I have requested some photographs from my personal collection and will post them in a few hours time.

Regards,

Will

sabrigade · #7 08-11-09, 05:47 PM

THE FIRST SOUTH AFRICAN INFANTRY BRIGADE

All members of the Brigade were strictly volunteers and it had been recruited and formed at Potchefstroom in the then Transvaal Province of South Africa.

This took place in August and September 1915.

The Brigade was destined for overseas service and specifically for the battlefields of the Western Front in Europe.

To make the battalions are representative as possible, they were organised to represent the various provinces. The Brigade was to consist of 4 battalions or Regiments of Infantry:

1st SAI - Cape of Good Hope

2nd SAI - Natal, Border and Orange Free State

3rd SAI - Transvaal and Rhodesia

4th SAI - South African Scottish

A universal cap badge, commonly called the " GOAT IN THE PORTHOLE" was worn by the battalions.

This badge appeared in various forms, shapes and sizes.

I also have a sterling silver officer's version in my collection.

From postcard photographs and other sources, it is very clear that a variety of sizes and makes of the general service badges were worn by the battalions as well as South African forces sent to France.

This was also valid for the South African Field Ambulance that accompanied the Brigade.

GOAT IN PH 3.jpg

]SAI FRAMES 10.jpg

sabrigade · #8 08-11-09, 05:54 PM

The Regiment was known as the Cape of Good Hope Regiment and was obviously formed from the old Cape Colony.

Buttons also differed per South African Regiment and that is illutrated in these photographs.

The brass numerals were worn on the epaullettes to indicate the Regiment.

SAI FRAMES 2A.jpg

SAI FRAMES 5.jpg

sabrigade · #9 08-11-09, 05:58 PM

This was the Natal and Orange Free State Regiment.

SAI FRAMES 2B.jpg

SAI FRAMES 6.jpg

sabrigade · #10 08-11-09, 06:02 PM

The Transvaal and Rhodesia Regiment. (Rhodesia is now Zimbabwe).

The buttons worn by the 1st and 3rd Regiments were the same.

SAI FRAMES 3.jpg

SAI FRAMES 7.jpg

sabrigade · #11 08-11-09, 06:26 PM

The 4th Regiment was known as the South African Scottish.

It can be very misleading to refer to the 4th Regiment as the "SAS" as this was the official abbreviation used for the South African Sharpshooters, a group of 16 snipers who also served on the Western Front. The regiment indicated on medals awarded to them was "SAS".

The 4th Regiment was formed from existing South African traditional Scottish Regiments and included members from the Transvaal Scottish and Cape Town Highlanders.

The Colonel-in-Chief was a very prominent local Scotchman, Colonel Sir William Dalrymple, and he used his influence to have the regiment supported by the Duke of Atholl who allowed his tartan, the Atholl-Murray, kilts to be worn. This was the same pattern as worn by the Transvaal Scottish Regiment.

The collar badges were of the same pattern as the Cape Town Highlanders with the difference being the family motto of the regimental Commander was used on the badge. There is therefore a distinct difference. The examples in the photograph of the collar badges are silver officer variations.

The Regimental Commander was Lt Col F.A. Jones DSO, who was killed in Bernafay Wood on 11 July 1916.

The same motto ws used on the button. There is a school of thought that has stated that the button was unofficially worn and that only the general service buttons were worn officially by the 4th Regiment.

I have various uniforms in my collection where ALL examples and variations were worn and are still on the uniforms to the SA Scottish!

The Regiment had their own sporran badges as well.

SAI FRAMES 4.jpg

SAI FRAMES 8.jpg

sabrigade · #12 08-11-09, 06:47 PM

ignore pse!

sabrigade · #13 08-11-09, 06:48 PM

Without trying to move away from the point and focus of the forum, which is badges,these photographs indicate the insignia worn by a band member as well as the helmet flash used by the SA Scottish.

There are 2 variations of the sporran badge.

Attachment 18687

Attachment 18688

dog watch · #14 10-11-09, 10:49 PM

Thanks for the the greath help and for the photos, it say more than a 1000 words. And sabrigade that is a real nice collection, with oll respect.

thanks agian,

Hans

sabrigade · #15 11-11-09, 10:02 PM

Hi Hans,

Let me know if you need more information.

I am based in the Sudan and have just returned from the field to Khartoum so I have to request photographs from South Africa.

Regards,

Will