RN Badge Reence book - " Rank & Badges" 2WW 1940

[RCN]

The next booklet is entitled - " Rank & Badges in the Navy, Army, RAF and Auxiliaries", printed by George Philip & Son (London) dated 1940.

So this one illustrates the services insignia at the beginning of 2WW. Again its worn somewhat & dated, staple bound this time & somewhat fragile, but still in pretty good shape for its age. .

I also have two subsequent editions of the booklet, dated 1941 & 1943 so I assume it was put out each year of the war as the series evolved & new photos were added. It has 32 pages in each of the 3 editions I have.

Navy section in first two editions go from page 3 to 12,
& for the 1940 & '41 editions are identical.

[RCN]

..

[RCN]

The next booklet I have for the 2 WW period is entitled -
" Ranks & Medal Ribbons of the Fighting Services"
Published by The Daily Mirror, 7 pence net.

No date on the two editions I have - only difference in the covers is that one was published in Canada by Collins Toronto.
Other than the different publisher the Naval section in both is identical,
& I am guesstimating circa 1943.

[Raymond Gilbert]

A recent thread about searching for a grandfather's wireman insignia turned out well for the grandson.
I see that all your pictures name the same badge as Seaman Torpedo. I gather that the navy didn't think it had time for a individual badge for this new branch of wiring.
I also didn't see any L.C. badges, which appeared on the gold wire one the grandson sent in

Any thoughts?

[RCN]

Hello Wireman,

Torpedo branch letters came during 2WW - L in '40, LC in '43
Specialty Torpedo letters were not included in these early wartime books, but note Gunnery letters had just appeared


RCN Bryan

[Alex Rice]

Hi Bryan
Thanks for all the info.
Cheers,
Alex

[Eddie Parks]

Byan these are some great pictures but are they not still under copyright to their original authors until 75 years after first publication?

As I understand things we can use small sections of copyright material for "academic study" but not great big chunks.

Other Fora have got into big trouble over this issue.

Eddie

[RCN]

Originally Posted by Eddie Parks

Byan these are some great pictures but are they not still under copyright to their original authors until 75 years after first publication?

As I understand things we can use small sections of copyright material for "academic study" but not great big chunks.

Other Fora have got into big trouble over this issue.

Eddie

Eddie I dont know if I have violated copyright laws as I dont know what the restrictions would be, there is nothing printed in any of the books I have illustrated that says they cannot be copied, but then they are very old so suspect copying was not an issue way back then. I certainly did not intend to offend, only to help mates out ID'ing naval insignia.

I assume the books are now all OOP & doubt they would ever be re printed.

Now the next book I was going to illustrate is JAN1 & it has excellent illustrations of all of the RN badges used in 2WW including many that have been mentioned or shown on this forum.
JAN1 was printed in 1991 & does have a copyright disclaimer.

So I will hold off on showing the badges in JAN1 until I receive some advice from either moderators or others more knowledgable than myself,

RCN Bryan

[Eddie Parks]

Ok - I am not trying to rain on anyone's head but here's a very brief outline of the UK's copyright law which applies in this case

Copyright is automatic - it does not need to be claimed or specified.

Copyright on literary works - books - lasts for 70 years after the death of the last author of the work. If the author is unknown copyright lasts for 70 years after it's first date of publication.

Crown copyright - on something created for or by the Crown - lasts 125 years.

It is an offence to perform any of the following acts without the consent of the owner: Copy the work. Rent, lend or issue copies of the work to the public. Perform, broadcast or show the work in public. Adapt the work.

Fair dealing is a term used to describe acts which are permitted to a certain degree without infringing the work, these acts include: Private and research study purposes. Performance, copies or lending for educational purposes.

Just possibly we fall under the last!

Eddie

[Mike]

Hi RCN, these booklets will likely still be in copyright, and as Eddie states only "fair use" is permissible - a paragraph or singe low resolution image - preferably with permission.


the copyright expiry will be the next 1st of January 70 years after the death of the creator of the work. So for example if a copyright holder died on the 5th of March 1930, his work would be out of copyright on the 1st January 2001

Crown Copyright is a little bit better; 50 years after first publication (from the end of the year) - so published works before 1961 are ok to reproduce as you see fit. There should be 'out there' published Crown copyright works which cover insignia similar to those you have shown.


I believe the 125 years Crown Copyright restriction Eddie is referring to is unpublished material.

[RCN]

OK mates I thank you & appreciate your thoughts, I never expected copyright issues - this is now becoming complicated.....

but what I need to know here is simple - do I continue this project or shut it down?

If I have violated copyright I will delete the previous posts I have made & accompanying illustrations, altho I hate to remove the resource especially if of use to members now or in future, but if I have to I will... I dont wish to put this excellent forum into any kind of jeopardy.......

So advise me what to do here!

RCN Bryan

[RCN]

Here is updates mates ------

Earlier today I requested permission from the below noted publisher & have received permission to show the insignia illustrations from JAN1 on the Forum.............




Dear Mr. Williamson,

Permission is hereby granted for you to share these plates with the forum.

Sincerely,

Susan Todd Brook

Senior Acquisitions Editor

Subsidiary Rights/Imports

Naval Institute Press

291 Wood Road

Annapolis, MD 21402



Subject: FW: Request concerning permission

Hello US Naval Institute,

I am uncertain to whom to address this enquiry so perhaps you might pass it onto whom might be responsble. for considering my request

Concerning the USNI publication - "Uniforms & Insignia of The Navies of World War II" (Compiled by US Naval Intelligence) Introduction by Andrew Mollo & published by USNI 1991.
Known as JAN 1 when first published by the US Naval Intelligence.

I obtained this book many years ago & have found it an invaluable source of information on insignia of the navies of WW2.

I belong to the British & Commonwealth Military Badge Forum & am a regular contributing member of Naval insignia - but only Royal Navy & Royal Canadian Navy.

As I do not wish to be involved in a copyright violation, I would like to obtain permission to illustrate a few of the Plates from the book on that forum - the Plates would be only from the British Navy section & would consist of Plates 15 thru 24.

Purpose would be to show other members of the forum what the wartime insignia of the Royal Navy (& Commonwealth Navies, as they were all identical in that time frame) consisted of.

There would be no money exchange involved at all & nothing would be offered for sale. It would only be to show what the insignia of the RN was at that time period.

& the USNI & USNaval Intelligence would be credited as source.

Thank you very much for your consideration of my request,


Bryan Williamson, CD,

(former RCN Ret'd)

[Eddie Parks]

Outstanding!