Current RN ranks

[RCN]

I wonder if someone might post a listing of the CURRENT RN ranks system?

I know the rank of Fleet Chief exists now, & the RN rank system has been brought into line with the Army & Air ranks, but what I dont know is what CURRENTLY is a WO (Warrant Officer)? I know the history of the old Warrant Officer rank & what a Warrant Officer was in the pre 1950 time frame but I am certain that rank is not now what it signifiied at that time.

Reason Iask is that Ray & I have been gabbing about RCN/RN ranks & neither of us really know the CURRENT RN rank system.

I have attached a photo taken from a medal dealers site illustrating a Fleet CPO, also called a WO, which confuses me even further - the accompanying writeup is below::

Could someone explain this please???
& be really nice if illustrations of the CURRENT ranks could be provided as well...... thanks in advance,

Bryan (RCN)

An exceptional Meritorious Service Medal, Long Service & Good Conduct Medal Royal Navy and Clasp for SECOND AWARD pair to Fleet Chief Petty Officer Writer (Warrant Officer) Derek Leonard, Royal Navy from Salisbury, Wiltshire who served an impressive 34 years including service with the British Naval Attache in Moscow 1969 to 1971 during the 'Cold War' his last appointments included the carrier HMS Ark Royal and Staff of Flag Officer Plymouth

[Paddy]

Bryan.

Do you want a breakdown of ratings, officers or both. I will post ratings as that is where the WO lies.

Current rates are - Able Rate, Leading Rate, Petty Officer, Chief Petty Officer, Warrant Officer Class 2 (Technical branches only) & Warrant Officer Class 1.

The rate of Fleet Chief Petty Officer no longer exists and was replaced by the Warrant Officer (this was the only WO rate at the time so no WO1 or WO2 but it was equivalent to the WO1 of the army)

In the techical branches (Weapons Engineering, Marine Engineering, Air Engineering, Communications Technician etc) there was a non-substantive rate of Charge Chief Petty Officer (CCPO) which had technical authority over CPOs of the technical branches but not the other branches (logistics, warfare, executive etc). Allowances for this non-substantive rate were made in QRRNs.

In late 2002/early 2003 it was decided to bring the RN into line with army rates and the WO2 was born. At 0001 on 1st April 2004 all Charge Chief Petty Officers became Warrant Officers Class 2. Charge Chief Petty Officers only existed in the technical branches so the rate of WO2 now only exists in the technical branches.

In the tech branches to get from CPO to WO1 you need to first be selected for WO2 and serve a minimum of 3 years in that rate to become eligible for selection to WO1. In the non technical branches there is no such hurdle so you only need to serve 3 years as a CPO to be considered for selection to WO1.

I will be putting together an album of RN cap & beret badges soon but if you would like pictures of the relevant cap/beret badges then please let me know.

Paddy (RN)

[David Tremain]

If you go into the MoD (Ministry of Defence) website and look in the RN section there used to be (I haven't checked it lately) an area devoted to ranks and uniforms worn by ratings and officers. David

[David Tremain]

Check this out:

http://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/training...adges-of-rank/

[RCN]

Paddy I thank youvery much for that detailed explanation, & yes that explains the WO situation quite well. All of that is pretty much new news to me & I am certain Ray (boots & saddle) will appreciate it also.

What was the insignia the WO2 wears? Crown inside laurel wreath like Army WO2?

Bryan

[RCN]

OK I got it now, thanks for that site David!

WO1 - WO2 - CPO - PO - LS -AB

[Paddy]

Bryan.

Now that I'm at home I can add a few pics.

I have added pics of the WO bullion cap badge and metal beret badge. Both WO1 & WO2 wear the same cap and beret badges. A Fleet Chief's cap & beret badge, WO1's epaulettes (same design used by FCPO) and WO2 epaulettes.

Paddy

[boots and saddles]

A very detailed explanation indeed, Now Paddy maybe you can answer a few questions from a novice, Bryan is trying to enlighten me but I don't think he has ever come across anyone so dumb before. Is a WO of any class considered a Commissioned Officer or is he a rating. To be neither one or the other puzzles me. Was he ever considered a Commissioned officer or have any privilages of such? When promoted does he only go to Sub. Lt. or Lt.. Seems like a very junior rank for such an experienced man. Reminds me of my earlier days working at the US Naval base at Argentia as a civilian. I had a job working in the pool hall, (in the Sailors hall), We were under a CPO at the time. he was a peach of a man but they brought in an Ensign to take over. The employee doing the dance floors etc. resigned & the Ensign called me in an informed me that I was going to do the floors from now on. I asked him who was taking my place & he informed me that I was going to do that also. Then it was my turn to inform him that I wasn't going to do it, He became furious & fired me. He ended up in a hole with two men short which the old Chief would never get himself into. When I came out the old Chief was shaking his head but laughing as they could hear the Ensign ranting at me. That's what I mean by experience. Ray

[RCN]

Thanks for posting those cap badge photos Paddy, I had also wondered about the WO cap badges. I have seen examples on ebay but I was not 100% certain exactly what rank(s) they were intended for.
The WO's cap badge is very nicely done.

Warrant Officers are appointed by Warrant, they are not Commissioned Officers & never have been in the history of the RN Ray, & I think still the same in the modern RN, but I am certain Paddy will advise us.........

& your Ensign of long ago was very good at shooting his nose off despite his face!

Bryan

[boots and saddles]

Originally Posted by RCN

Thanks for posting those cap badge photos Paddy, I had also wondered about the WO cap badges. I have seen examples on ebay but I was not 100% certain exactly what rank(s) they were intended for.
The WO's cap badge is very nicely done.

Warrant Officers are appointed by Warrant, they are not Commissioned Officers & never have been in the history of the RN Ray, & I think still the same in the modern RN, but I am certain Paddy will advise us.........

& your Ensign of long ago was very good at shooting his nose off despite his face!

Bryan

You probally told me that before Bryan & it didn't sink in.

[Paddy]

Ray & Bryan

As Bryan has just said, the WO is not a commissioned rank and comes under the rating structure. He receives a Royal Warrant on promotion. As for privileges, not many I'm afraid (if you know of any please let me know so that I can use them). It's probably best to give you extracts from the good books for the answers to your questions on privileges and promotion to officer. First one is from Queen's Regulations RN and the second one from Officer Career Regulations.

Privileges.
Warrant Officers, Chief Petty Officers and Petty Officers are to be granted every reasonable privilege. They are to be made to feel that confidence is placed in them and are to be treated with consideration due to the position of trust which they hold. To this end, the following rules are to be observed:

a. Warrant Officers are to be addressed as ‘Mr’, ‘Miss’ or ‘Mrs’ by their superiors and ‘Sir’ or ‘Ma’am’ by their subordinates. The prefix ‘Chief Petty Officer’ or ‘Petty Officer’, or the corresponding prefix for non-sea personnel ratings, is to be used by all ratings when addressing them or speaking of them.
b. Warrant Officers, Chief Petty Officers and Petty Officers are to fall in separately from their subordinates and are to be classed by themselves for instruction.
c. They are not to be mustered in and out of the ship save with special reason. Should a personal search be considered necessary see BR11 Chapter 3.
d. They are exempt from kit muster.

Warrant Officers First Class (WO1 (RN/RM)) promoted via the SUY/SCC
schemes

All ratings and other ranks who are selected for promotion to the Officer Corps will, if successful, be promoted to Lieutenant RN/Captain RM on the day after their last day at BRNC Dartmouth/CTCRM Lympstone, save for the following exceptions. Individuals who joined BRNC/CTCRM as substantive WO1s are awarded an additional year’s seniority in recognition of the rank and experience that led to their selection for promotion to WO1 (thereby finishing BRNC/CTCRM as a Lieutenant or Captain with one year’s seniority), whilst former Command Warrant Officers (RN) and the Corps Regimental Sergeant Major (RM) are granted an extra three years’ seniority (finishing BRNC/CTCRM as a Lieutenant RN/Captain RM with three years’ seniority)

Any other questions please let me know and I will try to answer.

Paddy

[RCN]

Thanks Paddy thats very interesting. I cannot speak for the modern RN but I do know when I was in the "old RCN" back in the early 60's you learned very very quickly -- when a CPO spoke to you (or rather more than likely yelled at you) you moved very quickly or you paid for it! If a CPO gave you an order or told you to do something you just "got on with it" if you knew what was good for you. You learned this very rapidly in New Entry training!
Most of these men commanded respect instantly.

Warrant Officers (that is, the 'old' term Warrant Officer) those ratings CFR (Commissioned from ranks) usually were somewhat older, say in their later 30's, or perhaps early 40's - the rank of WO had disappeared from the RCN by '50 & were now Comm'd (Commissioned) Officers, they wore one thick lace, exactly same as a Sub Lieut, but you knew one when you saw one, or you sure learned quickly the difference between a Sub Lieut & a Com'd O, & same with them, you moved fairly quickly when a Com'd O spoke! There was a LOT of experience behind that single lace!

Bryan

[Paddy]

Bryan

Unfortunately times have changed and definitely not for the better. I am a mere sprog compared to you, having joined up in 1982, but can concur with your comments about CPOs in those days. These days the younger ratings are too "street wise" and very aware of their "rights". We went through a phase a few years ago when we were short of junior rates and the powers that be decided that we would bend over backwards to keep them happy so that they wouldn't put their notice in and the "perks" and status of the senior rates suffered as a consequence. We still haven't really recovered from that.

Paddy