2 RWF

[Mike Jackson]

From a collection of photographs that surfaced today - the bush hat flash worn by 2 RWF, 29 Inf Bde in India 1943. Quality isn't brilliant, but there was a war on after all!
2 RWF_29 Inf Bde_India_1943,Bush Hat Badge.01.jpg2 RWF_29 Inf Bde_India_1943,Bush Hat Badge.02.jpg

[leigh kitchen]

Interesting - the generic fusilier collar badge/shoulder title/etc grenade and is that a 2 Div sign?

[Mike Jackson]

Perhaps I'm kidding myself, but when I look at his bush hat flash I see a rampant Welch dragon. Mike

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fc/61/5f/f...gon-crests.jpg

[leigh kitchen]

I did at first, but..... began to doubt........ now you show the dragon with RWF below it seems to come together. Any input from that ex-RWF chap Toby P that pops up occasionally?

[grey_green_acorn]

Here is the more recent 'red dragon' RWF TRF for comparison.

Tim

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by Mike Jackson

Perhaps I'm kidding myself, but when I look at his bush hat flash I see a rampant Welch dragon. Mike

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/fc/61/5f/f...gon-crests.jpg

This design had to have had a previous existence before 1995.

Marc

[High Wood]

The photograph must have been taken earlier than September 1944 when the 2/RWF were transferred to the 36th Infantry Division.

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

This design had to have had a previous existence before 1995.

Marc

You are right Marc, it was reintroduced (along with shoulder titles) by Lt Gen Jonathan Riley when he was commanding officer, and worn especially during a tour in Bosnia. The quality of the badge was much better than the last pattern (as posted above) and included the correct RWF in Gothic letters. The origin as a headdress badge relates to the Militia pre-1881, but it was also an early badge on the Colours of the 23rd Foot.

[54Bty]

Originally Posted by Toby Purcell

You are right Marc, it was reintroduced (along with shoulder titles) by Lt Gen Jonathan Riley when he was commanding officer, and worn especially during a tour in Bosnia. The quality of the badge was much better than the last pattern (as posted above) and included the correct RWF in Gothic letters. The origin as a headdress badge relates to the Militia pre-1881, but it was also an early badge on the Colours of the 23rd Foot.

The badge I posted is one of the Bosnia Tour badges and here is one of the Shoulder Designations, both from 1995.

Marc

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by 54Bty

The badge I posted is one of the Bosnia Tour badges and here is one of the Shoulder Designations, both from 1995.

Marc

Yes, that’s the one I was referring to. General Riley was always interested in regimental history and also reintroduced the use of metal shoulder titles (WW1 style) on some forms of dress. He has since become a highly respected and successful historian and author. Sadly his influence on dress was short lived.

[jf42]

As an ignoramus in this matter, could I ask when the 'Dragon rampant' emblem was adopted by (23) RWF and associated corps in place of the classic 'Dagon passant' of the national emblem?

[Toby Purcell]

Originally Posted by jf42

As an ignoramus in this matter, could I ask when the 'Dragon rampant' emblem was adopted by (23) RWF and associated corps in place of the classic 'Dagon passant' of the national emblem?

The Red Dragon (Y Draig Goch) was the ancient badge of Cadwaldr and one of several emblems adopted by the Prince of Wales. It differs from the Dragon of Wales, which is ‘Passant’, by being ‘Rampant’, that is raised on its back legs with upper legs in a fighting posture. The ‘Red Dragon’ was awarded to the 23rd in 1714 by King George I, along with all the other PoW insignia, when it was given the title ‘Prince of Wales Own Regiment of Welsh Fusileers’ and ordered to be worn upon the regimental Colour. The Red Dragon was also a badge used on elements of dress by some North Wales Militia units and this was carried across to the RWF upon merger in 1881, where it was worn initially on the officers’ forage cap grenade only. The 41st and 24th Foot were both awarded the Dragon of Wales, en passant, as insignia. The new regiment of the Royal Welsh has adopted the passant dragon on collar badges and the rampant dragon on buttons, a seemingly typical compromise designed to please all.

Footnote: Cadwaldr’s Dragon was described as fiery gold and this fiery aspect was created in depiction by colouring the dragon’s head and upper surface red, with the underside gold. Over time the red was extended over the whole body. From 1881 until the 1920s the RWF used a distinctly Griffin style dragon for its insignia, with beak, feathers and a curved tail. During WW1 the depiction in print became more stylised as a dragon with scales and a loop in its tail and, at some point in the 1920s, the insignia followed suit. Henry Tudor claimed descendence from Cadwaldr and adopted his Red Dragon, which can be seen on lampposts all along the Thames in the exact same configuration as used by RWF from the 1920s. As King George V was the colonel in chief of the RWF, there might have been some influence from him, but that is merely conjecture on my part.